sj4iy Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Othell Yarwick is not associated with Bowen Marsh. Nor is Septon Cellador part of the group trying to murder Jon in open sight. Actually, we don't know who 2 of the assassins are. We are only told "Bowen Marsh" and "Wick Whittlestick". There are two unnamed assassins who attack Jon after Marsh gets him in the stomach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Actually to BM and the group that stabbed Jon is that they are not suppose to interfere with the realm which is what Jon is doing and their thinking is to kill Jon because he is breaking the vow. They are not really thinking much about the aftermath but I can see their point of view. To them Jon is breaking his vow and as a result they are killing him. While this is obviously the inciting incident, and the conspirators are certainly doing it 'for the watch' from their perspective, I have a very hard time believing Bowen had not already resolved to kill Jon long before the letter and him announcing his intentions to march. When Jon informs Marsh (with Yarwyck and the Septon) of his plans to let the wildings pass, Marsh literally names the act treason to Jon's face. Beyond the pomegranates, the only thing we know about Marsh is his meticulous, calculating nature and his newfound visceral animus towards the wildings since the Bridge of Skulls. While admittedly the latter lends itself to a 'knee-jerk' reaction argument on behalf of the assassins, I think it strains credulity for Marsh to make such a brash and clearly suicidal decision. That's just my interpretation though. Maybe Marsh truly wants to be a martyr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj4iy Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Bowen Marsh says that if Jon lets through Tormund and the Weeper's people, the Wildlings would have enough men to end the NW in "one night". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Broke Howard Hughes Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Bowen Marsh says that if Jon lets through Tormund and the Weeper's people, the Wildlings would have enough men to end the NW in "one night". And him stabbing Jon could make tonight that night. Ironic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Defiance Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 As long as Jon lives, the NightS Watch lives and holds him to his vows. Well your vows hold until your death, and if he does in fact die but is brought back to life... he is no longer bound to them. Technically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Actually, we don't know who 2 of the assassins are. We are only told "Bowen Marsh" and "Wick Whittlestick". There are two unnamed assassins who attack Jon after Marsh gets him in the stomach. Yes, there are two more. Unknown persons. Not confirmed to be Othell or Cellador and rather unlikely. Especially since Jon has won Othell over. Well your vows hold until your death, and if he does in fact die but is brought back to life... he is no longer bound to them. Technically. That's the kind of word-twisting Jon despises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven Snow Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 That's the kind of word-twisting Jon despises. Exactly. I personally don't think he will leave the NW if he dies and then gets revived or whatever which will technically allow him to leave. And from what I remember from the books, I think a great deal of wildlings will not stand by and let Bowen and his merry men kill Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj4iy Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Yes, there are two more. Unknown persons. Not confirmed to be Othell or Cellador and rather unlikely. Especially since Jon has won Othell over. That's the kind of word-twisting Jon despises....it's also the kind of word twisting we see Jon himself do. He uses it as an excuse for braking his word to Stannis and letting Val go. He's using 'she's not a princess' as his (admittedly bad) excuse. We've also seen him nearly break his vows several times already. I don't see people say "well, even if he were released, he wouldn't do it!" Jon cares more about doing the right thing more than the honorable thing, and is prepared to deal with the consequences of his actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
too hot to handle Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Jon doesn't seem to be someone who thinks in technicalities. He doesn't let the wildlings through because technically they are part of the realms of men. It is part of his justification but not a main point. He does it because it "feels" morally correct. He sees them as a group of people and not savages. In my opinion if he wakes up from either being gravely injured or revived, does he feel that he is still part of the NW? Who knows? Whatever he feels is best to protect the realm of men will determine what happens to NW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj4iy Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Jon doesn't seem to be someone who thinks in technicalities. He doesn't let the wildlings through because technically they are part of the realms of men. It is part of his justification but not a main point. He does it because it "feels" morally correct. He sees them as a group of people and not savages. In my opinion if he wakes up from either being gravely injured or revived, does he feel that he is still part of the NW? Who knows? Whatever he feels is best to protect the realm of men will determine what happens to NW. ^This. He will do what he must to fight the Others and protect the living. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narvi Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 I believe the reaction will be like most things in this story, blood and fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Greatest_Walrus Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 But what about the wildling hostages? They are an incredibly powerful bargaining chip- they are the sons of the wildling commanders, including Tormund. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj4iy Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 But what about the wildling hostages? They are an incredibly powerful bargaining chip- they are the sons of the wildling commanders, including Tormund.There comes a point where all bets are off. I wouldn't be surprised if this is that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revenant6 Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 There comes a point where all bets are off. I wouldn't be surprised if this is that point. Agreed. I think this is what sets off the powder keg. Things at the Wall are going to be nuts. Actually, almost everywhere is going to be crazy. So excited for this book to come out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 But what about the wildling hostages? They are an incredibly powerful bargaining chip- they are the sons of the wildling commanders, including Tormund. To utilize them in any way, Bowen Marsh would need way more supporters than he has shown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of Nutella Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 i think everything is just going to be an utter chaos.so noone will think of the hostages when hell breaks losse, and even if someone thinks of them, there no way to organize a threatening execution so quick. probably the wildlings will free them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay21 Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 I think this will be catastrophic for the NW. These traitors missed their moment and killed Jon too late. I am of the belief that Jon wont be resurrected but will survive his wounds and be the only remaining Sword in the Darkness. But I also believe the Mance Rhaegar crackpot, so we'll see.... someday..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of Nutella Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 Mance rhaegar wait what in the fuck fucking fuck????!!@??Sounds interesting :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonalame Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 I hope Tormund takes over at the wall. If he sees an opportunity to take power he will take it because he is a Wildling and that's what they do, regardless of his respect for Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtomixIGN Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 Just remember George says winds of winter will open with two battles. Not three. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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