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The Fate of the Greyjoys


The brown snake

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Vic will get screwed over and killed by Euron fairly soon.



Euron will get hold of a dragon and cause some serious destruction all over Westeros before eventually meeting a nasty end (maybe by dragonfire).



Theon will escape and take the black, before playing a part in the war against the others.



Asha will eventually lead the ironborn, and fulfil the reader's plan of modernising them and getting some land in the North.



Aeron I don't have a clue, but it's going to be interesting (I seem to be the only one who likes the Damphair).


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Aeron I don't have a clue, but it's going to be interesting (I seem to be the only one who likes the Damphair).

My friend, there are others!. I'm a huge fan of the Damphair. Your hypotheses, to my mind, are more feasible than other hogwash I've read hereabouts. Wish we would have gotten Aeron's TWOW POV read to us instead of Arianne's.

Asha & the Reader (& Theon) are the best bet for modernizing the IB & integrating the isles w/ the mainland, which is where that storyline is like to end, unless the status quo is maintained, which is unlikely.

Won't be the least surprised if Vic is a POV to die in TWOW, but I think he's going to surprise people. & a scene between him & Tyrion would be comedy gold.

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He fears Euron.

oops. I stand corrected. His molester still gives him the fear, but that's it. & his fear of Euron shakes his faith, which is the only pillar in his life now that Balon's dead, which is why he is so discombobulated by Euron (& he's not the only one).

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I think the only one who eventually dies is Euron (he's simply too chaotic evil to be anything other than an irredeemable villain). I also think Damphair will wet himself (if you excuse the pun) when "dead things in the water" (c.f. Cotter Pyke's letter) turn up off the coast...


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oops. I stand corrected. His molester still gives him the fear, but that's it. & his fear of Euron shakes his faith, which is the only pillar in his life now that Balon's dead, which is why he is so discombobulated by Euron (& he's not the only one).

It seems the only thing the Greyjoy brothers fear are themselves. :read:

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Nothing in the Undying points to Euron, and I think the grey corpse smiling sadly is too vague to point to a Greyjoy. Euron can't pose a sgnificant threat to Dany, IMO, as he no longer has the horn, and it has been sabotaged. She will also likely have the Iron Fleet. Aegon has only the GC atm, but I doubt Euron is going to be a bigger threat than the guy who Dany will have a second Dance with, the conflict that has been pointed to since AGoT.

If you have a rep here for successful predictions I don't know about it & I've other things to do than research your 10,000 posts, but what I read you suggest about Oldtown was, um wack, imho. I don't know you, I didn't say you were ludicrous. But if I think a theory is ludicrous I'll say it's ludicrous. It's nothing personal. My teenage students are less thin skinned. I'll try to be more sensitive ok.

"a corpse stood at the prow of a ship, eyes bright in his dead face, grey lips smiling sadly." -HOTU If that imagery doesn't point to a Greyjoy I don't know what does. If the drowned god is actually a thrall of the great other/old gods the bright eyes in that case would sound like a white walker/wight.

"A tall and twisted thing, with one black eye and ten long arms, sailing on a sea of blood." -Moqorro. If that doesn't sound like Euron & his blood red ship, The Silence, I don't know what does.

But never mind all that prophecy from the two most ironclad sources for it, Samwell Gamgee will slay the Pirate King in an early chapter of TWOW? I'm just not buying it.

& another thing. If Vic dies, the ironfleet doesn't just transfer to Dany. If the IB won't follow Asha, they won't just leap at the chance to follow Dany. They'd need some incentive beyond "give me your fleet I need or I'll burn you're fleet I need."

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- Theon: "What is dead may never die. But rises, harder and stronger." I think Theon won't die (not until near the end of the last book), and may become important as a servant of the Drowned God. Not sure how it would happen though. Maybe he will go to the Wall and meet Patchface, who seems connected to the Drowned God too.


(By the way, I don't buy this idea that Theon will be sacrificed beneath a heart tree and the blood will be used to resurrect Jon. He may well be sacrificed beneath a heart tree, but this thing of using blood to do stuff makes magic just too mechanical…)



- Asha: I think she will die, and very soon. IMO she doesn't have much more to add to the story.



- Damphair: My guess it that he will die, but only after something big related to the Drowned God happens. Maybe he will have a vision, or witness something like the "dead things in the water".



- Victarion: Not sure. He still has much to add to the story: he's prob going to meet Dany, he's supported by a Red Priest, he wants vengeance against Euron. Maybe he dies (like many other characters), but I think he has a fair chance of surviving.



- Euron: Like Victarion, he still has much to add to the story: he will sure create a lot of chaos. Also, since he travelled to the far east, he may have some info on prophecies and stuff like that…Maybe he will die, or just disappear. I don't think he is an important character by himself, but will be like a trigger to important events.


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If you have a rep here for successful predictions I don't know about it & I've other things to do than research your 10,000 posts, but what I read you suggest about Oldtown was, um wack, imho. I don't know you, I didn't say you were ludicrous. But if I think a theory is ludicrous I'll say it's ludicrous. It's nothing personal. My teenage students are less thin skinned. I'll try to be more sensitive ok.

I'm okay with my theory being called inaccurate or any scientifically correct terms, but calling it anything else can be taken as a spectacular form of name-calling as Keith Ward put it. Instead of calling it names just simply state why it could be wrong.

"a corpse stood at the prow of a ship, eyes bright in his dead face, grey lips smiling sadly." -HOTU If that imagery doesn't point to a Greyjoy I don't know what does. If the drowned god is actually a thrall of the great other/old gods the bright eyes in that case would sound like a white walker/wight.

None of the Greyjoys are described as corpses, and I think it is a stretch to compare a grey corpse that smile to the name "Greyjoy." There is this quote from Tyrion regarding a man who killed his father:

"A tall and twisted thing, with one black eye and ten long arms, sailing on a sea of blood." -Moqorro. If that doesn't sound like Euron & his blood red ship, The Silence, I don't know what does.

Euron isn't headed towards Dany, Victarion is.

"You ought to see it [Dothraki Sea] when it blooms, all dark red flowers from horizon to horizon, like a sea of blood."

The sea of blood in Moqorro's vision is I think the Dothraki Sea, where Dany currently is. Victarion is the kraken who would likely go look for her in there for a set number of days. It is better to go look for her and have some feeling of control rather than just waiting for her in Meereen feeling helpless. Victarion is impatient, and not without good reason, he wants to leave with her before the Volantene fleet arrives.

& another thing. If Vic dies, the ironfleet doesn't just transfer to Dany. If the IB won't follow Asha, they won't just leap at the chance to follow Dany. They'd need some incentive beyond "give me your fleet I need or I'll burn you're fleet I need."

Who else will they follow? They are stuck in a strange land with no allies at hand. I doubt they would say no to the girl with dragons, something Asha never had. Dany also has a larger army than Asha. Besides, knowing Tyrion, he would work to secure the loyalty of the Iron Fleet in the event Victarion dies given that he knows he needs the fleet to ferry him and Dany to Westeros. He has dealt with their kind of ilk before in the form of the mountain clans, and he can offer them rich rewards for their service.

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Who else will they follow?

They don't need to follow anyone if Vic is dead. Every captain is King, remember?

They are stuck in a strange land with no allies at hand.

Stuck? No, no no, Dany is stuck. They have ships. Very un-stuck. They made it from the II to SB by ship, they can just make the return trip.

I doubt they would say no to the girl with dragons, something Asha never had. Dany also has a larger army than Asha.

An army that can't walk on water. Daenerys can't possibly try threatening the IB, they'll just leave her ass and go home.

Besides, knowing Tyrion, he would work to secure the loyalty of the Iron Fleet in the event Victarion dies given that he knows he needs the fleet to ferry him and Dany to Westeros. He has dealt with their kind of ilk before in the form of the mountain clans, and he can offer them rich rewards for their service.

Possibly. The Ironborn aren't as cheaply bought as the Mountain clansmen, though. They already have all the weapons they need. Where's the gold Tyrion is supposedly going to offer them ?

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ugh, I'd guess you're very much in the minority thinking that HOTU quote doesn't reference a Greyjoy. Where is the quote that attributes it to a man killing Tyrion's father? What? I really confused what you mean there. Reaching. The sea of blood and the red bloomed Dothraki sea is a connection I'm not completely opposed to, but the one black eye part makes it seem more like to be Euron. And the Ironborn are of the same "kind of ilk" as the mountain clans?



Basically I'm saying your understanding of the Ironborn is very wrong, and glaringly so.



The Volanteen fleet is right behind them so they need to move quickly. Dany, the whole point of the journey, both for the IB & Moqorro, is not there. They either leave quick before the Volanteen arrive, or more likely, the dragonhorn works and Rhaegal is controlled and burns the incoming Green Gallies, which. Moqorro would want too. Tyrion is best suited to broker a truce between IB & Mereen, especially b/c I think Bary will die (prob from Vic), leaving the more savvy Shavepate and Tyrion etc all to rule. Joarah is back too & he & Selmy won't get along either. The IB just need to sit in their ships if anything. The unsullied are great at making a spikey shield wall but they'd get slaughtered fighting on boats and I doubt most can swim. Even if Dany came back, threatening the fleet w/ destruction by dragon defeats the purpose.



I'm making judgments based on sound character analysis, situational plot development, and the solid prophecies of Moqorro & THOTU. I like the Greyjoys but I'm not making weird connections to put them as rulers of the world or something.


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Euron isn't headed towards Dany, Victarion is.

"You ought to see it [Dothraki Sea] when it blooms, all dark red flowers from horizon to horizon, like a sea of blood."

The sea of blood in Moqorro's vision is I think the Dothraki Sea, where Dany currently is. Victarion is the kraken who would likely go look for her in there for a set number of days. It is better to go look for her and have some feeling of control rather than just waiting for her in Meereen feeling helpless. Victarion is impatient, and not without good reason, he wants to leave with her before the Volantene fleet arrives.

Not that i believe it, but people think Euron is with the Iron Fleet as well.

“The glass candles are burning. Soon comes the pale mare. After her will come the others. Crow and kraken, lion and griffin, the sun’s son and the mummer’s dragon. Remember the undying. Beware the perfumed seneschal.”

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Fire Eater, with one black eye in a sea of blood? C'mon, that bit at least is definitely Euron. Unless perhaps you're suggesting it's big Vic's one-eyed serpent?!

Personally something still makes me think the grey lips smiling sadly is actually Theon. Evidence? ...err...mmm...might be a separate thread, actually, ulp!

I always thought it was Theon smiling sadly too is there a thread on this ?

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ugh, I'd guess you're very much in the minority thinking that HOTU quote doesn't reference a Greyjoy. Where is the quote that attributes it to a man killing Tyrion's father? What? I really confused what you mean there. Reaching. The sea of blood and the red bloomed Dothraki sea is a connection I'm not completely opposed to, but the one black eye part makes it seem more like to be Euron. And the Ironborn are of the same "kind of ilk" as the mountain clans?

Do you have survey over who believes the corpse smiling sadly to be a Greyjoy? Victarion likely has black eyes given he is in the same gene pool as Euron, and who is to say he won't lose an eye in battle? Reachin? If ypou don't know the quote then how do you know it is reaching? You end up living up to that Socrates quote. The mountain clans and Ironborn are both cultures that glorify raiding, and are more democratic with men in the clans having a say while the Ironborn allow captains to have a say in the kingsmoot.

"And the young one?"

"Killed his father."

Tyrion gave the rotting head a second look. Why, it almost looks as if those lips are smiling.

I think it refers to Tyrion, who I think is afflicted with greyscale, turning grey from the inside out. It might be a bit slim, but I doubt it is a Greyjoy.

Basically I'm saying your understanding of the Ironborn is very wrong, and glaringly so.

Living up to that Socrates quote alright. The Ironborn are men like any other men. They follow strength.

The Volanteen fleet is right behind them so they need to move quickly. Dany, the whole point of the journey, both for the IB & Moqorro, is not there. They either leave quick before the Volanteen arrive, or more likely, the dragonhorn works and Rhaegal is controlled and burns the incoming Green Gallies, which. Moqorro would want too. Tyrion is best suited to broker a truce between IB & Mereen, especially b/c I think Bary will die (prob from Vic), leaving the more savvy Shavepate and Tyrion etc all to rule. Joarah is back too & he & Selmy won't get along either. The IB just need to sit in their ships if anything. The unsullied are great at making a spikey shield wall but they'd get slaughtered fighting on boats and I doubt most can swim. Even if Dany came back, threatening the fleet w/ destruction by dragon defeats the purpose.

There are no Green Gallies. I doubt Jorah would allow Victarion a chance to marry the woman he loves. Jorah grew up on Bear Island where kids are taught to fear krakens rising from the deep, and he fought them in the Greyjoy Rebellion. I think he would die trying to kill Victarion. I don't think there will be truce since the IB supposedly came to aid Meereen. I think Tyrion more likely decieves Victarion into thinking he is cowed, and works behind the scenes to build his base in Meereen.

The Ironborn have no defenses against dragons. The Ironborn would not want to risk getting caught in conflagration.

I'm making judgments based on sound character analysis, situational plot development, and the solid prophecies of Moqorro & THOTU. I like the Greyjoys but I'm not making weird connections to put them as rulers of the world or something.

I've studied the text religiously for a few years, and been on this forum a long while. I've read plenty of essays on the series as well. I've seen different forms of foreshadowing and different theories. The prophecies are anything, but solid. They can be pretty vague, and open to misinterpretation.

Fire Eater, with one black eye in a sea of blood? C'mon, that bit at least is definitely Euron. Unless perhaps you're suggesting it's big Vic's one-eyed serpent?!

Personally something still makes me think the grey lips smiling sadly is actually Theon. Evidence? ...err...mmm...might be a separate thread, actually, ulp!

Except Euron is nowhere near the Dothraki Sea or Dany. Victarion could lose an eye.

They don't need to follow anyone if Vic is dead. Every captain is King, remember?

Stuck? No, no no, Dany is stuck. They have ships. Very un-stuck. They made it from the II to SB by ship, they can just make the return trip.

An army that can't walk on water. Daenerys can't possibly try threatening the IB, they'll just leave her ass and go home.

Possibly. The Ironborn aren't as cheaply bought as the Mountain clansmen, though. They already have all the weapons they need. Where's the gold Tyrion is supposedly going to offer them ?

Those captains want to fight on the winning side, and wouldn't want to leave empty-handed.

I meant if they go looking in the Dothraki Sea.

But dragons can fly in the sky over water. If they try to leave they'll risk getting burned in dragonflame, a risk few are willing to take. Besides, most would likely be in Meereen when Victarion goes off to the Dothraki Sea.

Tyrion is the rightful Lord of CR, and he can promise them gold from the vaults of CR.

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