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R+L=J v99

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A shiny new thread for you to enjoy.

Carry on :)

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Reference guide

The Tower of the Hand has an excellent analysis of this theory:
Jon Snow's Parents

And Westeros' Citadel also provides a summary:
Jon Snow's Parents

A Wiki of Ice and Fire:
Jon Snow Theories


Frequently Asked Questions:

How can Jon be a Targaryen if he has a burned hand?
Targaryens are not immune to fire. Aerion Brightflame died drinking wildfire. Aegon V and his son Duncan are thought to have died in a fire-related event at Summerhall. Rhaenyra was eaten by Aegon II's dragon, presumably roasted by fire before the dragon took a bite. Viserys died when he was crowned with molten gold. Dany suffered burns from the fire pit incident at the end of A Dance with Dragons. Finally, the author has stated outright that Targaryens are not immune to fire. Jon's burned hand does not mean he is ineligible to be part Targaryen. For more information about the myth of Targaryen fire immunity, see this thread.

How can Jon be a Targ if he doesn't have silver hair and purple eyes?
Not all Targaryens had the typical Valyrian look. Alysanne had blue eyes. Baelor Breakspear and his son(s) had the Dornish look. Some of the Great Bastards did not have typical Valyrian features. Jon's own half-sister Rhaenys had her mother's Dornish look.

If Jon isn't Ned's son, then why does he look so much like him?
Much is made over the fact that Arya looks like Lyanna, and Jon looks like Arya. Ned and Lyanna shared similar looks.

How can Jon be half-Targ if he has a direwolf?
Ned's trueborn children are half Stark and half Tully. Being half Tully didn't prevent them from having a direwolf so there is no reason to think being half Targaryen would prevent Jon from having a direwolf. If Lyanna is his mother, then he's still half Stark. Furthermore, there is already a character who is half Targaryen and half blood of the First Men and was a skinchanger: Bloodraven.

Since Rhaegar was already married, wouldn't Jon still be a bastard?
The evidence that Jon is legitimate is that Targaryens have a history of polygamous marriages which makes it a possibility that Rhaegar had two wives. Three Kingsguards were present at the Tower of Joy when Ned arrived. Even after Ned said that Aerys, Rhaegar and Aegon were dead and Viserys had fled to Dragonstone, the Kingsguard opted to stay at the Tower of Joy stating they were obeying their Kingsguard vow. The heart of a Kingsguard's vow is to protect the king. With Aerys, Rhaegar and Aegon dead, the new king would have been Viserys, unless Lyanna's child was legitimate making him the new king of the Targaryen dynasty.
For a comprehensive analysis of Jon's legitimacy, see the detailed explanations in the two linked articles.

But polygamy hadn't been practiced in centuries, is it still even legal?
The practice was never made illegal and there may have been some less prominent examples after Maegor, as stated in this SSM. Furthermore, Jorah suggests it to Dany as a viable option.

Weren't the Kingsguard at Tower of Joy on the basis of an order from Aerys, to guard Lyanna as a hostage?
Aerys was sane enough to realize how taking someone hostage works even at the end of the Rebellion, and he would hardly miss the opportunity to bring Ned and Robert in line any time after the situation started to look really serious.
Furthermore, regardless of on whose order the Kingsguard might have stayed at Tower of Joy, they would still be in dereliction of their duty to guard the new king.

This theory is too obvious and too many people believe it to be fact. How can it be true?
The theory is not obvious to the majority of readers. Some will get it on first read, most will not. Keep in mind that readers who go to online fan forums, such as this one, represent a very small minority of the A Song of Ice and Fire readership. Also, A Game of Thrones has been out since 1996. That's more than 17 years of readers being able to piece together this mystery.

Why doesn't Ned ever think about Lyanna being Jon's mother?
Ned doesn't think about anyone as being his mother. He says the name 'Wylla' to Robert, but does not actively think that Wylla is the mother. He also doesn't think of Jon as his son. There are numerous mysteries in the series, and Jon's parentage is one of those. If Ned thought about Jon being Lyanna's son, it would not be a mystery.

Why should we care who Jon's parents are? Will Jon care? Who cares if he's legitimate?
Once one accepts that the evidence is conclusive and that Jon's parents are Rhaegar and Lyanna and that he is most probably legitimate, these become the important questions.

Since this theory has been refined so well, will Martin change the outcome of the story to surprise his fans?
No, he said he won't change the outcome of the story only because some people have put together all the clues and solved the puzzle.


Previous editions:

Please click on the spoiler below to reveal links to all previous editions of this thread.

Lyanna + Rhaegar = Jon Thread” (thread one)

Lyanna + Rhaegar = Jon Thread” (thread two)

The Lyanna + Rhaegar = Jon thread (Part III)” (thread three)

The Lyanna + Rhaegar = Jon thread (Part IV)” (thread four)

The Lyanna + Rhaegar = Jon Thread (Part V)” (thread five)

The Lyanna + Rhaegar = Jon Thread (Part VI)” (thread six)

The Rhaegar + Lyanna = Jon Thread Part VII” (thread seven)

The Rhaegar + Lyanna = Jon thread, Part VIII” (thread eight)

The Rhaegar + Lyanna = Jon thread, Part IX” (thread nine)

The Rhaegar + Lyanna =Jon Thread, Part X”(thread ten)

The R+L=J thread, part XI” (thread eleven)

The R+L=J thread, part XII” (thread twelve)

R+L=J Part XXIII” (thread thirteen)

R+L=J Part XXIV” (thread fourteen)

R+L=J XXV” (thread fifteen)

R+L=J v.16” (thread sixteen)

R+L=J v.17” (thread seventeen)

R+L=J v.18” (thread eighteen)

R+L=J v.19” (thread nineteen)

R+L=J v.20” (thread twenty)

R+L=J v.21” (thread twenty-one)

R+L=J v.22” (thread twenty-two)

R+L=J v.22a” (thread twenty-two (a))

R+L=J v.23” (thread twenty-three)

R+L=J v.24” (thread twenty-four)

R+L=J v.25” (thread twenty-five)

R+L=J v.26” (thread twenty-six)

R+L=J v.27” (thread twenty-seven)

R+L=J v.28” (thread twenty-eight)

R+L=J v.29” (thread twenty-nine)

R+L=J v.30” (thread thirty)

R+L=J v.31” (thread thirty-one)

R+L=J v.32” (thread thirty-two)

R+L=J v.33” (thread thirty-three)

R+L=J v.34” (thread thirty-four)

R+L=J v.35” (thread thirty-five)

R+L=J v.36” (thread thirty-six)

R+L=J v.37” (thread thirty-seven)

R+L=J v.38” (thread thirty-eight)

R+L=J v.39” (thread thirty-nine)

"R+L=J v.40" (thread forty)

"R+L=J v.41" (thread forty-one)

"R+L=J v.42" (thread forty-two)

"R+L=J v.43" (thread forty-three)

"R+L=J v.44" (thread forty-four)

"R+L=J v.45" (thread forty-five)

"R+L=J v.46" (thread forty-six)

"R+L=J v.47" (thread forty-seven)

"R+L=J v.48" (thread forty-eight)

"R+L=J v.49" (thread forty-nine)

"R+L=J v.50" (thread fifty)

"R+L=J v.51" (thread fifty-one)

"R+L=J v.52" (thread fifty-two)

"R+L=J v.53" (thread fifty-three)

"R+L=J v.54" (thread fifty-four)

"R+L=J v.55" (thread fifty-five)

"R+L=J v.56" (thread fifty-six)

"R+L=J v.57" (thread fifty-seven)

"R+L=J v.58" (thread fifty-eight)

"R+L=J v.59" (thread fifty-nine)

"R+L=J v.60" (thread sixty)

"R+L=J v.61" (thread sixty-one)

"R+L=J v.62" (thread sixty-two)

"R+L=J v.63" (thread sixty-three)

"R+L=J v.64" (thread sixty-four)

"R+L=J v.65" (thread sixty-five)

"R+L=J v.66" (thread sixty-six)

"R+L=J v.67" (thread sixty-seven)

"R+L=J v.68" (thread sixty-eight)

"R+L=J v.69" (thread sixty-nine)

"R+L=J v.70" (thread seventy)
"R+L=J v.71" (thread seventy-one)

"R+L=J v.72" (thread seventy-two)

"R+L=J v.73" (thread seventy-three)

"R+L=J v.74" (thread seventy-four)

"R+L=J v.75" (thread seventy-five)

"R+L=J v.76" (thread seventy-six)

"R+L=J v.77" (thread seventy-seven)

"R+L=J v.78" (thread seventy-eight)

"R+L=J v.79" (thread seventy-nine)

"R+L=J v.80" (thread eighty)

"R+L=J v.81" (thread eighty-one)

"R+L=J v.82" (thread eighty-two)

"R+L=J v.83" (thread eighty-three)

"R+L=J v.84" (thread eighty-four)

"R+L=J v.85" (thread eighty-five)

"R+L=J v.86" (thread eighty-six)

"R+L=J v.87" (thread eighty-seven)

"R+L=J v.88" (thread eighty-eight)

"R+L=J v.89" (thread eighty-nine)

"R+L=J v.90" (thread ninety)

"R+L=J v.91" (thread ninety-one)

"R+L=J v.92" (thread ninety-two)

"R+L=J v.93" (thread ninety-three)

"R+L=J v.94" (thread ninety-four)

"R+L=J v.95" (thread ninety-five)

"R+L=J v.96" (thread ninety-six)

"R+L=J v. 97" (thread ninety-seven)

"R+L=J v. 98" (thread ninety-eight)

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Guys! We're only one away until our party!!!!



But...I haven't seen Ser Creighton in awhile. What if he misses the party?? He promised us John Stamos!


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Guys! We're only one away until our party!!!!

But...I haven't seen Ser Creighton in awhile. What if he misses the party?? He promised us John Stamos!

I will PM him ;)

Mine and yolkboy's contribution will sadly be a bit delayed. We have a MEGA LonCon episode coming out tomorrow, and y'all are just piling on these threads waaaay too fast.

Look for a big hint in v.100 though :D

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Apple Martini said in the last thread:


I have never believed, and would never believe, that three Kingsguard, one of whom is the lord commander, would put the protection of a bastard baby above the protection of the king, whether that king was crowned or not. So if that's your premise, sorry, not buying.


From the Voice of God (at least, the creator-god of Westeros):



"The King's Guards don't get to make up their own orders. They serve the king, they protect the king and the royal family, but they're also bound to obey their orders, and if Prince Rhaegar gave them a certain order, they would do that. They can't say, "No we don't like that order, we'll do something else.""


Rhaegar ordered the three KG to stay guarding the tower, and they stayed - even though staying at the Tower meant depriving Aerys of the valuable services of his Kingsguard commander and 42% of his Kingsguard during a civil war that the Targaryens are currently losing. GRRM says specifically that the KG don't like that "certain order" they were given by Rhaegar. He also says that their dislike is irrelevant - they HAVE to obey Rhaegar, because their role is to obey and not to judge - nor to make up their own orders if they don't like the ones given to them by the people empowered to command them.



So if the KG must obey orders from Rhaegar even if they don't like them (as per GRRM's words), then they are as bound to obey Rhaegar's order to protect his pregnant mistress as much as they are bound to obey Rhaegar's order to protect his pregnant wife...regardless of how much the order to protect a mistress offends their sense of decency and propriety. Their hurt feelings are immaterial. They can't say, "No we don't like that order, we'll do something else."


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Guys! We're only one away until our party!!!!

But...I haven't seen Ser Creighton in awhile. What if he misses the party?? He promised us John Stamos!

I'll bring the pizza and the soda.

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Apple Martini said in the last thread:

From the Voice of God (at least, the creator-god of Westeros):

Rhaegar ordered the three KG to stay guarding the tower, and they stayed - even though staying at the Tower meant depriving Aerys of the valuable services of his Kingsguard commander and 42% of his Kingsguard during a civil war that the Targaryens are currently losing. GRRM says specifically that the KG don't like that "certain order" they were given by Rhaegar. He also says that their dislike is irrelevant - they HAVE to obey Rhaegar, because their role is to obey and not to judge - nor to make up their own orders if they don't like the ones given to them by the people empowered to command them.

So if the KG must obey orders from Rhaegar even if they don't like them (as per GRRM's words), then they are as bound to obey Rhaegar's order to protect his pregnant mistress as much as they are bound to obey Rhaegar's order to protect his pregnant wife...regardless of how much the order to protect a mistress offends their sense of decency and propriety. Their hurt feelings are immaterial. They can't say, "No we don't like that order, we'll do something else."

They must also obey their first duty, the duty that matters above all these: protect the king. The current so-called king of the Targaryen dynasty is without a KG. One of them would have gone. All it takes is one KG for the collective KG duty to be fulfilled.

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HHHHHHOOOOOODOR!!!!!!!!!1!!!11!!!!!!!!!!!111!!!!!!one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!eleven!!!!!!!!onehundredeleven!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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They must also obey their first duty, the duty that matters above all these: protect the king. The current so-called king of the Targaryen dynasty is without a KG. One of them would have gone. All it takes is one KG for the collective KG duty to be fulfilled.

Even the royal family when it comes to it.

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Lord Varys:


And since both Viserys and Rhaegar's child would have been minors for a rather long time, the order could, most likely, only be revoked if the KG knights decided to accept whoever declared him/herself regent for the minor new king. If they believed that Rhaegar's son was the true king, then Ser Gerold most likely declared himself Lord Regent, Protector of the Realm, and Hand of the King by the time Ned arrived there.




See, the part about Ser Gerold believing Jon is the King and declaring himself Lord Regent over baby Jon seems unlikely to me. Because in doing so, he's running roughshod over the authority of the one member of the Royal Family left in the Tower - Lyanna.



Lyanna would not want the Kingsguard to attack Ned and his six men and try to kill them all. She would have wanted to talk to Ned first and see if she could convince him to spare Jon and help him. But the ToJ 3 flipped the bird to Lyanna's wishes in the matter and marched out to kill her beloved brother without ever offering him a chance to parley with his sister and see if they could reach an agreement without bloodshed.



The way the KG treated Lyanna is the way guards would treat a prisoner whose wishes they have no reason to respect - much less obey. It doesn't seem to me like the way the Kingsguard are supposed to respect and obey the family of the King - and if Jon's the King, she's the King's mother, who has both by nature as his mother and by Kingsguard doctrine as the Royal family (who they are obliged to obey) the right to make decisions for him.



If Jon's the King, by ignoring the wishes of the King's mother and deciding to march out to slay her brother, Hightower and his men would be doing exactly what GRRM said they were not supposed to do...make up their own orders. They are overruling Royal family to consult their own judgement - and KG are NOT supposed to do that. Since these guys are SUPPOSED to be such paragons of KG, I don't think they're breaking the rules so cavalierly.



I think they don't think Jon's the king, and therefore Jon's mother has no right or authority to command them...and therefore the only thing they can honorably do is Obey the last orders given to them by Rhaegar - protect the Tower from all comers.


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Lord Varys:

Lyanna would not want the Kingsguard to attack Ned and his six men and try to kill them all. She would have wanted to talk to Ned first and see if she could convince him to spare Jon and help him. But the ToJ 3 flipped the bird to Lyanna's wishes in the matter and marched out to kill her beloved brother without ever offering him a chance to parley with his sister and see if they could reach an agreement without bloodshed.

The way the KG treated Lyanna is the way guards would treat a prisoner whose wishes they have no reason to respect - much less obey. It doesn't seem to me like the way the Kingsguard are supposed to treat and obey the family of the King - and if Jon's the King, she's the King's mother, who has both by nature as his mother and by Kingsguard doctrine as the Royal family (who they are obliged to obey) the right to make decisions for him.

Lyanna doesn't get a say when it comes to the KG's duties. It doesn't matter if she doesn't want them to attack Ned. They have a sworn duty to protect Baby King Jon from the Best Friend of the Usurper, Uncle or Not.

And how on earth do you know how the KG treated Lyanna????? She wasn't chained to a bed. She was incredibly ill and they made sure she was still fed and didn't send away the midwife or other servants. They were not treating her like a prisoner because she wasn't.

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They must also obey their first duty, the duty that matters above all these: protect the king. The current so-called king of the Targaryen dynasty is without a KG. One of them would have gone. All it takes is one KG for the collective KG duty to be fulfilled.

Just to go off what I said ^

This isn't a matter of the KG thinking, "we want to do something else." This is the basic fact that the 1st and most important KG duty is NOT being fulfilled if Viserys is king. This isn't a choice for the KG, it's upholding their duty that makes them KG.

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Lyanna doesn't get a say when it comes to the KG's duties. It doesn't matter if she doesn't want them to attack Ned. They have a sworn duty to protect Baby King Jon from the Best Friend of the Usurper, Uncle or Not.

So what you're saying is that Royal Family has no right to interfere with the Kingsguard's protection of the King, however they choose to protect him.

But I think that's flatly contradicted by the various occasions in the books where the Royal Family commanded the KG, and the KG meekly obeyed - to the detriment of the King. Like when Cersei commanded Jaime, the Lord Commander, to leave KL and leave the KG in the command of a treacherous rookie like Kettleblack - and he did it. Like when the KG meekly asked Tywin (who was the Hand, not a member of the Royal Family) for permission to rescue the King after waiting idly for six months for Tywin to end the King's imprisonment - six months in which the King was alone, without a KG, imprisoned in a dungeon going slowly mad.

Most importantly, Rhaegar himself interfered with the KG's protection of the King by depriving the King of the KG Lord Commander's services, as well as 42% of Aerys' KG, so that he could make them protect a woman who at best is his second wife, carrying the fourth in line to the throne - thus depriving other Royal family of equal or higher rank to bodyguards they may need, and depriving the King of their services - which both may be critical in a war.

If you agree that Rhaegar (who is the King's eldest son) had the authority to order the ToJ 3 to stay away from the King in the middle of a civil war that the King is losing - why is it such a problem to believe that Lyanna (who is the King's mother, if Jon is king) has the authority to command the KG to bring Ned in to try parleying with her before trying to slaughter him?

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So what you're saying is that Royal Family has no right to interfere with the Kingsguard's protection of the King, however they choose to protect him.

Not what I said at all.

Lyanna does not get to tell the KG what to do when it contradicts the MAIN KG DUTY which to protect the King. She cannot say "do not attack my brother" when the KG cannot be sure that Ned isn't going to try to hurt or make off with the baby. There is no parley. Ned is the BFF of the Usurper. He doesn't get to talk. The prime KG duty to protect the King has kicked in. There is no negotiations.

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Okay, and now we've come back around to the if Jon is king then Lyanna is the regent argument. The conclusion does not automatically follow from the premise. Someone might argue: but Cersei! Cersei was the queen dowager, and the Lannisters were the most powerful family in the 7K at the time. Very different circumstances.



Even if you want to argue that the KG should have been following Lyanna's orders because she was a member of the royal family, you have to weigh that argument against the safety of the king, from the KG perspective.



From the Wikipedia article on the title of queen dowager. The bold would seem to apply in the case of Lyanna and Jon.



Not every mother of a reigning monarch is a queen mother or a queen dowager. For example, the mother of Queen Victoria of United Kingdom, Victoria of Saxe-Coburg-Saalfeld, was never a queen dowager because her husband, Edward Augustus, Duke of Kent, had never been king. Similarly, whilst being the mothers of monarchs, both Augusta of Saxe-Gotha and Srinagarindra of Thailand were not styled queen dowager because their respective husbands, Frederick, Prince of Wales and Mahidol Adulyadej, Prince of Songkla, were never kings. Instead, Augusta held the title of ”Dowager Princess of Wales” (a precedent was Henry VII of England's mother, Lady Margaret Beaufort, titled "My Lady the King's Mother"); Srinagarindra meanwhile received the designation ”Princess Mother".

- Link



ETA: Another thing to consider is that, while it's possible the KG had been following Lyanna's orders, Hightower took command after she became incapacitated by her fever.


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Just to go off what I said ^

This isn't a matter of the KG thinking, "we want to do something else." This is the basic fact that the 1st and most important KG duty is NOT being fulfilled if Viserys is king. This isn't a choice for the KG, it's upholding their duty that makes them KG.

"The current so-called king of the Targaryen dynasty is without a KG. One of them would have gone. All it takes is one KG for the collective KG duty to be fulfilled."

As I said before, this rule is written nowhere in the books...neither "The King cannot be without a Kingsguard," nor for that matter (iirc) "All it takes is one KG for the collective KG duty to be fulfilled." (and again, if I'm wrong, please correct me). We've seen that the King can be without a KG with the blessing of the LC, if the King has non-KG who he considers trustworthy. And we've seen instances where the King was without a KG (Barristan, Bob and the Boar, Duskendale, and someone else mentioned an episode in The Princess and the Queen, which I haven't read) and AFAIK, no KG disobeyed orders to rush in and remedy the lack.

So the theory that Jon MUST be king is based on "rules" that are not actually written IN the books, that may not actually exist - and in fact, various episodes that I cited seem to provide some evidence that they don't.

And how on earth do you know how the KG treated Lyanna????? She wasn't chained to a bed. She was incredibly ill and they made sure she was still fed and didn't send away the midwife or other servants. They were not treating her like a prisoner because she wasn't.

I agree she doubtless wasn't chained. But IMO, to march out and do their level best to kill her brother under her window while she was lying on her deathbed screaming for him is NOT treating her well.

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"The current so-called king of the Targaryen dynasty is without a KG. One of them would have gone. All it takes is one KG for the collective KG duty to be fulfilled."

As I said before, this rule is written nowhere in the books...neither "The King cannot be without a Kingsguard," nor for that matter (iirc) "All it takes is one KG for the collective KG duty to be fulfilled." (and again, if I'm wrong, please correct me). We've seen that the King can be without a KG with the blessing of the LC, if the King has non-KG who he considers trustworthy. And we've seen instances where the King was without a KG (Barristan, Bob and the Boar, Duskendale, and someone else mentioned an episode in The Princess and the Queen, which I haven't read) and AFAIK, no KG disobeyed orders to rush in and remedy the lack.

Just going to do this bullet point style cause we've done this probably 100x now.

1) It IS in the books. Not as a rule but as evidenced by Jaime remaining with Aerys when everyone else went off to the Trident. One KG had to stay behind.

2)Duskendale. It's frankly just bizarre that people keep trying to use Duskendale. Aerys was captured. What were the KG going to do? Knock on the door and go, "hey...I've got this vow to uphold. Please lemme in." And there WAS ONE KG WITH THE KING. He was killed. Again, more evidence that the King needs one KG with him.

3) You cannot use the Boar and Bob and Barry. No one suspected that Drunk Robert was THAT drunk and was going to miss his thrust.

So the theory that Jon MUST be king is based on "rules" that are not actually written IN the books, that may not actually exist - and in fact, various episodes that I cited seem to provide some evidence that they don't.

So textual evidence that the King always has one KG with him isn't enough because one of the KG didn't sit down and explain the rules to the audience? At what point was GRRM going to have "exposition explosion" on KG rules and not make it look blatantly obvious that he was trying to hint at something. It's not how he writes. He gives bits and pieces here and there and expects us to connect the dots.

I agree she wasn't chained. But IMO, to march out and do their level best to kill her brother under her window while she was lying on her deathbed screaming for him is NOT treating her well.

The brother is the best friend of the Usurper who, as far as the KG know, thinks that they are holding his sister hostage! "No no lord Eddard. Let us explain..you see...Lyanna WANTED this." And the screaming: she wasn't screaming. Lyanna never calls him "Eddard!" She always called him Ned. That's not Lyanna in the dream screaming, that's the present day person trying to wake Ned up.

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The question of the kingsguard at the tower has been asked and answered.




Shaw: Can you explain why the King's Guard chose to stand and fight Ned at the Tower of the Joy instead of protecting the remaining royal family members?


Martin: The King's Guards don't get to make up their own orders. They serve the king, they protect the king and the royal family, but they're also bound to obey their orders, and if Prince Rhaegar gave them a certain order, they would do that.


http://web.archive.o...s3/00103009.htm




The answer does not support kingsguard equals king present.



The primary duty, primary purpose are fabrications.




The first duty of the kingsguard was to defend the king from harm or threat. The white knights were sworn to obey the king's commands as well, to keep his secrets, counsel him when counsel was requested and to keep silent when it was not, serve at his pleasure and defend his name and honor. Strictly speaking; it was purely the king's choice whether or not to extend Kingsguard protection to others even those of royal blood. Some kings thought it right and proper to dispatch Kingsguard serve and defend their wives and children, siblings, aunts, uncles, and cousins of a greater or lesser degree,and occasionally their lovers, mistresses and bastards. But others preferred to use household knights for those purposes, whilst keeping their seven as their own personal guard never far from their sides.


If the queen had commanded me to protect Hizdahr, i would have no choice but to obey.--aDwD 857-858





The basis for the duty to always have a kingsguard with the king does not support the assertions about it. ,




The day had been windy when he said farwell to Rhaegar, in the yard of the Red Keep. The prince had donned his night-black armor, with the three headed dragon picked out in rubies on his breastplate. "Your grace," Jamie had pleaded, "Let Darry stay to guard the king this once, or Ser Barristan. Their cloaks are as white as mine.


Prince Rhaegar shook his head. "My royal sire fears your father more than our cousin Robert. He wants you close so Tywin can't harm him. I dare not take that crutch away from him at such an hour."


Jamie's anger had risen up in his throat. "I am not a crutch, I am a knight of the kingsguard."


"Then guard the king," SerJon Darry snapped at him. "When you donned that cloak you promised to obey."---aFfC page 133



The idea that one is breaking his oath by not being with the king is a fabrication



The "Targaryen dynasty" is also a fabrication.





He remembered Jamie Lannister, a golden youth in scaled white armor, kneeling in the grass in front of the king's pavilion making his vows to protect and defend king Aerys.--aGoT page 607


The idea that there is a baby in the tower neglects to mention that "bed of blood" equates to "birth"





He dreamt an old dream, of three knights in white cloaks. and a tower long fallen, and Lyanna in her bed of blood.---aGoT page 409



As they came together in a rush of steel and shadow, he could hear Lyanna screaming. .---aGoT page 410



"I know every secret of the bloody bed, silver lady, nor have I ever lost a babe." Mirri Maz Duur replied.--aGoT page 650

"That was the way of this cold world, where men fished the sea and dug in the ground and died, whilst women brought forth short-lived children from beds of blood and pain."- AFfC p. 21




The idea that Ned found Lyanna dying fabricates a connection between Lyanna screaming in the above quote and the following:





"I was with her when she died." Ned reminded the king. "She wanted to come home, to rest beside Brandon and father." He could still hear her at times. Promise me, she had cried in that room that smelled of blood and roses. Promise me, Ned. The fever had taken her strength and her voice had been as faint as a whisper, but when he had given his word, the fear had gone out of his sister's eyes. Ned remembered the way she had smiled then, how tightly her fingers had clutched his as she gave up her hold on life, the rose petals spilling from her palm dead and black. After that he remembered nothing. They found him still holding her body. Howland Reed, had taken her hand from his, Ned could recall none of it. "I bring her flowers when I can," he said. "Lyanna was... fond of flowers."--aGoT page 40


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Guys! We're only one away until our party!!!!

But...I haven't seen Ser Creighton in awhile. What if he misses the party?? He promised us John Stamos!

Nuncle Creighton will not disappoint on Stamps.

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