Why MUST there always be a Stark in Winterfell?

[SacredOrderOfGreenMen]

Why aren't first Kings of Winter entombed on the first level of the catacombs? The more tombs you need to bury Kings in the North the further they'd dig down to make room for them. If you put the first Kings of Winter on the bottom floor and entombed newer dead kings on levels farther up, you'd eventually run out of room and have to dig further down or to the sides to make room.

Practically speaking it doesn't make sense other than for plot purposes that there is something important down in the crypts GRRM had to hide from the readers.

That is interesting.

I'm guessing that they're not missing cause of some remodling project lol.

[Duckfield]

Because they lost all their keys so someone has to stay home to open the door when the others get back. DUH

[NorthernXY]

That is interesting.

I'm guessing that they're not missing cause of some remodling project lol.

Well if Bran the Builder built Winterfell, he was probably responsible for the crypts. Which I'm assuming had to be carved from an existing cave. Winterfell was built over hot springs, it'd be pretty stupid to start digging catacombs because you might hit the vein the water is coming up from and flood the tombs. Filling the tombs bottom-up makes no sense because you'd eventually run out of space to fill upward.

[redriver]

Well if Bran the Builder built Winterfell, he was probably responsible for the crypts. Which I'm assuming had to be carved from an existing cave. Winterfell was built over hot springs, it'd be pretty stupid to start digging catacombs because you might hit the vein the water is coming up from and flood the tombs. Filling the tombs bottom-up makes no sense because you'd eventually run out of space to fill upward.

Whether it makes no sense or not we are told in the text that the oldest crypts are at the lowest levels.So that's the way it is.

[kimim]

Well if Bran the Builder built Winterfell, he was probably responsible for the crypts. Which I'm assuming had to be carved from an existing cave. Winterfell was built over hot springs, it'd be pretty stupid to start digging catacombs because you might hit the vein the water is coming up from and flood the tombs. Filling the tombs bottom-up makes no sense because you'd eventually run out of space to fill upward.

I grew up in Turkey, where there are ancient underground cities. Lower you go, newer the levels, so what you're saying makes sense.

The only explanation would be Bran knew in advance how many Starks would die, which is possible, given all manner of Stark weirdness.

[NorthernXY]

One way it might make sense is if the first Kings of the North weren't really entombed but rather they were greenseers and joined the weirwood, like Bloodraven, which has exposed roots on the lower levels. Don't know if more than one person can join a tree but I'd assume it's only possible with weirwoods and not every weirwood has its roots exposed.

[Burning down the House]

If there is not a Stark in Winterfell that means a Bolton is running the show and thats not good for anyone.

[seeroftruths]

BC LB is sealed in the oldest crypt in in Winterfell by blood magic. The key is Stark blood. BC AA was a long lived descendant of the pact as was his brother BB and their grand father Edrick. Known as snow before the nk jon snow the first's name was banned making BB and Edrick take the name Stark after defeating the nk who attacked winterfell to get LB to free Nissa not Nissa. until the short lived andals who knew nothing of the nk took over. At which point they became known as snowbeard and ice eyes..as they finally began showing their age. This is when they also had to pretend to be their own ancestors and descendants to hide their "fountain of youth" secret from the andals.

Unless Im reading a different book anyways

[Fisch]

Umber and Bolton were raping young brides for hundreds of years. Ned's excuse to not do anything about the Wildling raids and the refugees was that "winter is coming". No shit. It's 3 years in, Winter is only now showing up. There was time enough for one or two good harvasts if Ned had indended to aid the Northern frontier. Why did'nt he? Because Mormont was demanding that the people keep paying taxes to the NW. A legitimate demand, considering that Ned is plannins on basiaclly installing his bannermen in the Gift. If Ned was going to agree, there is no reason not to sent men, some second sons, his bastard and others, and some soldiers, and using this land to grow food (instead of feeding refugees from his and his bannermen's own stock, and we see just how little the bannermen care to secure food for winter) and securing the frontier. The only reason to wait with the plan is if he wants the NW to get so desperate that they would leave the issue of tax, and allow him to basically reclaim the Gift.

First off - aside from Bolton's musing that others must be as bad as he is, what proof do you have that the Umbers practice first night?

Jon remembers Ned and Benjen talking about the plan to resettle the Gift, so it happened at a time he was old enough to both remember and understand what they were talking about - not very long ago, in other words. Mance Rayder seems to be a fairly recent threat, and one Ned is concerned about. And with winter coming, energy is best spent bringing in harvests and preparing for the cold. Resettling the Gift and installing new lords would require abandoned towers and villages, planting, settling which lords get which territory, etc. It's a process that would take years, and starting it on the eve of summer would be idiotic.

The Lannisters have been in Casterly Rock for the same time as the Starks. You don't hear about "there must always be a Lannister in Casterly Rock", because they don't need that kind of propaganda. It's a part of life, and they don't leave behind such disloyal lords like Bolton after several rebellions against them. Look at the Storm Kings. House Durrandon, later house Baratheon, traces it's line back to exactly the time of the first Stark (Bran the Builder apparently did a side gig for them with SE), and they literally trace themselves to actual gods. Do you hear "there must always be a Durrandon/Baratheon in SE"? No, because they too don't fall into thier own propaganda so hard.

You bring up propaganda, but the only House I see actively doing anything close to it is the Lannisters - inventing stories of the sorcery and savagery of their enemies, breaking out "Rains of Castamere" so often, and injecting their colours and their banners into the Iron Throne when (officially) it's the Baratheons that sit the chair.

All three families have ruled the same holdings for the same time. Only the Starks are soo full of themselves that they repeat to themselves how they always need to be here, and it's as natural as anything that they rule Winterfell. Jon handwaves away Winterfell as no more after his line is fallen. Stannis needs to correct him that granite does not burn so easily, and Ramsay took some squatters and rebuilt the critical parts in days. A Stark in Winterfell does not mean shit. Bran lost Winterfell, and Stannis is likely going to take it from Bolton. It's just a castle, and there isn't too much special about it.

Damned if I remember where, but I swear there's a GRRM quote to the effect of: not just anyone can hold the North. He hasn't said the same of any of the other Seven Kingdoms.

That there's some supernatural reason why the Starks must sit in Winterfell seems a bit more overtly magical than this series has been so far, but I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't love to see something like that come up.

[Ramsay Gimp]

First off - aside from Bolton's musing that others must be as bad as he is, what proof do you have that the Umbers practice first night?

This isn't a trial so we don't need proof beyond a reasonable doubt to assume the Umbers secretly keep to old customs. There's no reason for Roose to make that up in his conversation with Theon, and he doesn't "muse" it. He confirms it matter-of-factly

The first night was tradition for thousands of years, even for a while after Aegon landed. Starks did it

[Hodor knows]

There must be a Stark in Winterfell to keep whatever is bound in the crypts bound.

[Pox Americana]

I don't think it's supposed to be prophetic of something catastrophic happening without a Stark (especially due to magic), but rather simply a political statement about the Starks as a stabilizing and unifying force in the North. So, propaganda seconded, albeit justified in a strange sense. The Starks have defeated Ironborn, Andal invaders, Wildlings, Southroners, Skagosi, rogue Northern vassals, pirates, etc. assimilating many of them. "There must always be a Stark in Winterfell" to prevent a power vacuum.

[MyLittleFinger]

The second there isn't a Stark in Winterfell the great houses of the North begin plotting and grasping for power.

[James Arryn]

Because 'There must always be a Stark in Rain House!' sounds random.

[TheDoom]

It must be pointed out that the comparisons between Winterfell and other Great Seats, such as Casterly Rock and Storm's End, are inherently flawed. Since we know that all the southern kingdoms were conquered during the Andal Invasion, places like Casterly Rock are inhabited by their second set of owners, at the least. Storm's End was conquered again by the Valyrians during Aegon's Conquest, so we know they are on their third set of owners, at least. Winterfell, on the other hand, has been in the hands of the Starks, or more importantly, the First Men, for thousands of years longer. The reason the Lannisters and Baratheons don't go around saying "There must always be a _____ in _____." is because they weren't around during the Dawn Age or The Long Night, and they don't know anything about it.

Whatever the reasons are for the various Stark sayings and traditions, they are their own. And the other Great Houses of Westeros are as clueless as we are.

[Maid So Fair]

To keep the dragon that escapes when Bran leaves Winterfell contained.

It's probably just a saying, like A Lannister always pays his debts etc.

[jon stark I]

There are some seriously good theories about this phrase.Some think there is a pact between the Starks and COTF.Some say Bran the Builder built 4 impregable castles using magic one is his home seat of WF the most powerfull one, the other is the one he built for the Storm king, Grey Water watch(this might not have been built by Brandon) and the last one is of course the Wall.

[Faydra]

To keep the peace, I suppose. The queer crypts and snow storms are more likely to be related with the swords that were taken from the graves.

[Ibbison from Ibben]

If ever there is a time that Winterfell is not occupied by an actual living member of House Stark, then the Starks lose the tax exemption granted to them in the Westerosi Historical Landmarks Act of 68 AC.

[AryaNymeriaVisenya]

It must be pointed out that the comparisons between Winterfell and other Great Seats, such as Casterly Rock and Storm's End, are inherently flawed. Since we know that all the southern kingdoms were conquered during the Andal Invasion, places like Casterly Rock are inhabited by their second set of owners, at the least. Storm's End was conquered again by the Valyrians during Aegon's Conquest, so we know they are on their third set of owners, at least. Winterfell, on the other hand, has been in the hands of the Starks, or more importantly, the First Men, for thousands of years longer. The reason the Lannisters and Baratheons don't go around saying "There must always be a _____ in _____." is because they weren't around during the Dawn Age or The Long Night, and they don't know anything about it.

Whatever the reasons are for the various Stark sayings and traditions, they are their own. And the other Great Houses of Westeros are as clueless as we are.

How do you work that out about Storm's End. Why would the Andal invaders keep the name of Durran? More likely they did what they did with Orys and married to preserve the line. It seems at least from what we know to be as direct as the Starks bar a change of name once. Its the blood that matters.