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Small Questions v.10088


Jon Weirgaryen

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After Mariahs wedding he would have been the heir to Sunspear. Daenerys was born after that wedding, and would have been married the earliest 15 years later. As heir to Sunspear, Maron would have every reason to marry in his twenties.

I suppose, hypothetically, there could have been some sort of agreement whn Daeron married Mariah that House Targaryen would provide a bride for Maron too?

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I suppose, hypothetically, there could have been some sort of agreement whn Daeron married Mariah that House Targaryen would provide a bride for Maron too?

Could be.. but that bride would have been a hypothetical one. Mariah gave birth before Naerys, so it wasn't like there was a pregnant Targaryen walking around with a potential bride in the belly at the time of the arrangements.

I think any child of Mariahs for Maron would have been out of the question, perhaps (too close to incest).

This is why I think that Maron was married before, but the marriage ended childless. Aegon IV had tried to attack Dorne (with his wooden dragons, a story that must have ended hilarious and disastrous). To make up for that, a Targaryen bride could have been offered after that attempt, and if Daenerys had been too young at the time, that could have made Maron wait a few years for her.

If they had gotten married in the late 180ties, hen Maron would have been in his late thirties. As the (soon to be) ruling Prince, you get yourself some heirs to continue the line. ;)

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OK ... I have another question. If (and this is a BIG if) Rhaegar's little boy was saved (fAegon), then why oh why didn't they save his little girl too? Poor baby was scared to death, and this has bothered me a lot.


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OK ... I have another question. If (and this is a BIG if) Rhaegar's little boy was saved (fAegon), then why oh why didn't they save his little girl too? Poor baby was scared to death, and this has bothered me a lot.

If this did happen then I think they may have only been able to save one of them. Firstly, it would be easier to replace a one year old with an imposter than a three year old and secondly, Aegon's safety, as son and heir, would take precedence over Rhaenys.

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Was Daemon Blackfyre married to one of his half-sisters?In the show the name of his wife was Serena,no mention of her name in the books through.





OK ... I have another question. If (and this is a BIG if) Rhaegar's little boy was saved (fAegon), then why oh why didn't they save his little girl too? Poor baby was scared to death, and this has bothered me a lot.




Aegon could be switched,he was a baby after all,noone would recognise him but Rhaenys was 3,everyone would be able to recognise her and if they had,Robert would start to suspect they switched the girl,right?Could they possibly have switched the boy too?Then he would send assasins to find Aegon and Rhanys and we know what would have happened them.They needed secrecy besides Elia would think that Rhaenys would live and Robert might have kept her alive to be wedded to his son or to Renly,unfortunately things didn't go as planned.


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Was Daemon Blackfyre married to one of his half-sisters?In the show the name of his wife was Serena,no mention of her name in the books through.

We don't know who his wife was, no. But he wasn't married to Daenerys Targaryen (whom he loved) or Shiera Seastar. So unless I have forgotten any of his half sisters, he presumably wed someone outside of House Targaryen. Maybe to cement an alliance with another House.

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We don't know who his wife was, no. But he wasn't married to Daenerys Targaryen (whom he loved) or Shiera Seastar. So unless I have forgotten any of his half sisters, he presumably wed someone outside of House Targaryen. Maybe to cement an alliance with another House.

Daemon must have had a lot of sisters based on his father's character,i know he was not wedded to Shiera or Daenerys but he might have wedded Jeyne Waters or one of his unlegitimised half sisters.

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Daemon must have had a lot of sisters based on his father's character,i know he was not wedded to Shiera or Daenerys but he might have wedded Jeyne Waters or one of his unlegitimised half sisters.

Jeyne Waters wasn't his half sister I don't think...she was a daughter of Elaena Targaryen, who was the sister of Daena and the cousin of Aegon IV. So she would be some degree of cousin to him I think.

Daena Targaryen had only her one child, Daemon Blackfyre.

Any other children Aegon IV had were presumably lowborn, since they are not mentioned at all. His listed children are Daeron, Daenerys (legitimate) and his Great Bastards: Brynden Rivers, Aegor Rivers, Shiera Seastar and Daemon Blackfyre

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Jeyne Waters wasn't his half sister I don't think...she was a daughter of Elaena Targaryen, who was the sister of Daemon's mother and the cousin of his father. So she would be some degree of cousin to him I think.

Daena Targaryen had only her one child, Daemon.

Any other children Aegon IV had were presumably lowborn, since they are not mentioned at all.

Ups my mistake,thanks for correcting me :) but i still believe Jeyne is the most likely.

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Was Daemon Blackfyre married to one of his half-sisters?In the show the name of his wife was Serena,no mention of her name in the books through.

Aegon could be switched,he was a baby after all,noone would recognise him but Rhaenys was 3,everyone would be able to recognise her and if they had,Robert would start to suspect they switched the girl,right?Could they possibly have switched the boy too?Then he would send assasins to find Aegon and Rhanys and we know what would have happened them.They needed secrecy besides Elia would think that Rhaenys would live and Robert might have kept her alive to be wedded to his son or to Renly,unfortunately things didn't go as planned.

Thanks everyone. It still bothers me ... didn't they drag her out from under her bed and she was crying? Sorry .... I sympathize too much with children being hurt I guess. You're both so appreciated.

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Thanks everyone. It still bothers me ... didn't they drag her out from under her bed and she was crying? Sorry .... I sympathize too much with children being hurt I guess. You're both so appreciated.

What happened to Rhaenys was cruel,stabbing 50 fifty times a child is a monstrous thing to do but that's Tywin.

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Was Daemon Blackfyre married to one of his half-sisters?In the show the name of his wife was Serena,no mention of her name in the books through.

Aegon could be switched,he was a baby after all,noone would recognise him but Rhaenys was 3,everyone would be able to recognise her and if they had,Robert would start to suspect they switched the girl,right?Could they possibly have switched the boy too?Then he would send assasins to find Aegon and Rhanys and we know what would have happened them.They needed secrecy besides Elia would think that Rhaenys would live and Robert might have kept her alive to be wedded to his son or to Renly,unfortunately things didn't go as planned.

Robert wanting to kill all Targaryens, was connected with Lyanna's death.

Tywin did not think Robert would have killed children.

We had come late to Robert's cause. It was necessary to demonstrate our loyalty. When I laid those bodies before the throne, no man could doubt that we had forsaken House Targaryen forever. And Robert's relief was palpable. As stupid as he was, even he knew that Rhaegar's children had to die if his throne was ever to be secure. Yet he saw himself as a hero, and heroes do not kill children.--Tywin --aSoS chapter 53

Robert said he was not fighting for the crown. He fought for the girl.

Now lets see what Ned thought about it."The gods be damned. It was a hollow victory they gave me, A crown... it was the girl I prayed them for, Your sister safe...and mine again as she was meant to be. I ask you Ned, what good is it to wear a crown? The gods mock the prayers of kings and cowherds alike." --Robert aGoT 111

Ned does not believe that Robert would kill children.

"I thought you were a better man than this Robert. I thought we had made a nobler king,"--Ned aGoT page 343.

The only Targaryen that Robert actually killed in 13 years was Rhaegar in single combat.

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Ok, Myriah is eldest - but that means she was an heiress and was supposed to be Ruling Princess of Dorne! So, she renounces her claim to become a queen-consort of neighbor kingdom? She was so robbed. :tantrum:

She originally was the heiress to Dorne, yes. But I wouldn't say she was robbed. Had she inherited Dorne, her children would have ruled over one Kingdoms in the future. She became the Queen of the Seven Kingdoms instead (ok, upon her marriage, there were still only 6 kingdoms united). Her children continued the line of kings. Her children became Kings and Queen(s).

OK ... I have another question. If (and this is a BIG if) Rhaegar's little boy was saved (fAegon), then why oh why didn't they save his little girl too? Poor baby was scared to death, and this has bothered me a lot.

Aegon was roughly a year old at the time of the Sack. Finding a replacement for a child that age is much easier than finding a replacement for a child of 3 years old.

In addition, when Rhaenys was born, Tywin Lannister was still present at court. He would have known the child, whereas at Aegon's birth, Tywin was no longer living in KL. Whichever child you put in front of Tywin, he personally had no way of telling whether the child truly was Aegon or not.

And last but not least.. Aegon, as heir to the throne, was the most important to safe. Rhaenys was a girl, and thus, her life was forfeit. It's not that she couldn't have been taken out of KL, there were ways.. But there were no ways to take her out of KL without anyone knowing that she had escaped.. And that was essential to Varys' plans.

As a girl, Rhaenys had the biggest chance of survival. She could not inherit the throne, and even if people wanted to make a claim through her, Robert could have married his eldest son to Rhaenys to ensure that such succession wars did not occur. It would have been a rather smart thing to do, anyway, and it would have given House Martell a reason to stay loyal to the throne.

Was Daemon Blackfyre married to one of his half-sisters?In the show the name of his wife was Serena,no mention of her name in the books through.

Serena is completely show-created. That has been confirmed.

Daemon was not married to a half-sister of his, for as far as we know. Elaena's children are a possibility, both the trueborn and the girl born out of wedlock (Jeyne Waters).

But take a look at that. Daemon was 14 years old at the time his eldest children were born, meaning he probably got married when he was 13, and was thus betrothed even earlier. First of all, Aegon IV was still alive at that point, and as Daemons father and King, Aegon got to make the match for Daemon. Second, this is very, very young. Marriages usually occur at ages like these because they are necessary, for a diversity of reasons:

- Maegor I was married at the age of 13, because Visenya had been pushing for a marriage between 13-year old Maegor and 2-year old Rhaena. To silence Visenya, Maegor was married to 23-year old Ceryse instead.

- Sansa Stark, wed at the age of 12 (almost 13), solely to lay claim to her family's lands and seat.

- Joffrey Baratheon, wed at the age of 13 to ensure support which he could use for winning the war

- Margaery Tyrell, wed at the age of 15, because Renly needed a reason to be ensured of the support of House Tyrell.

- Daenerys Targaryen, wed at the age of 13, solely to get her brother an army.

- Tyrek Lannister was married at the age of 13 to a child of a year old, just so his family could claim her lands

A couple of examples. Of course there are situations that count as exceptions, but usually, you aren't married off at the age of 12 or 13 just because.. Usually, there is a reason. And with Aegon being allowed to say who Daemon married, we should consider whose support Aegon would have wanted to have. I have no idea on that, but it seems to me that there wouldn't have been much reason to marry Daemon to a daughter of Elaena.. Whoever Elaena married, the throne received the support of that house because Elaena had been given as bride. Marrying Elaena's trueborn daughter to a bastard son, might have been seen as an insult to the House of Elaena's husband(s), and marrying Daemon to Elaena's bastard, would absolutely do nothing at all.

Robert said he was not fighting for the crown. He fought for the girl.

Now lets see what Ned thought about it."The gods be damned. It was a hollow victory they gave me, A crown... it was the girl I prayed them for, Your sister safe...and mine again as she was meant to be. I ask you Ned, what good is it to wear a crown? The gods mock the prayers of kings and cowherds alike." --Robert aGoT 111

Robert says he fought for the girl. In reality, though, Robert fought a war because a king was demanding that Robert's head be taken off of Robert's body. It was fighting, or dying.

As for "fighting for the girl", Roberts actions differ quite significantly from his words. Because no one would believe that Robert was looking for Lyanna underneath the skirts of the whores in the brothel at the Stony Sept, for example.

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Robert wanting to kill all Targaryens, was connected with Lyanna's death.

Tywin did not think Robert would have killed children.

We had come late to Robert's cause. It was necessary to demonstrate our loyalty. When I laid those bodies before the throne, no man could doubt that we had forsaken House Targaryen forever. And Robert's relief was palpable. As stupid as he was, even he knew that Rhaegar's children had to die if his throne was ever to be secure. Yet he saw himself as a hero, and heroes do not kill children.--Tywin --aSoS chapter 53

Robert said he was not fighting for the crown. He fought for the girl.

Now lets see what Ned thought about it."The gods be damned. It was a hollow victory they gave me, A crown... it was the girl I prayed them for, Your sister safe...and mine again as she was meant to be. I ask you Ned, what good is it to wear a crown? The gods mock the prayers of kings and cowherds alike." --Robert aGoT 111

Ned does not believe that Robert would kill children.

"I thought you were a better man than this Robert. I thought we had made a nobler king,"--Ned aGoT page 343.

The only Targaryen that Robert actually killed in 13 years was Rhaegar in single combat.

I agree Robert would not be the one to do it but Tywin on the other hand.

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This raises the question=Who was she then?I hope GRRM answers us soon.

I cannot imagine this won't be in the World Book. It has to be in there.. it's part of the family tree, after all :)

There should be a hint in The Mystery Knight, and I've searched and searched, but all I've been able to come up with is a general idea, not a specific woman.

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I cannot imagine this won't be in the World Book. It has to be in there.. it's part of the family tree, after all :)

There should be a hint in The Mystery Knight, and I've searched and searched, but all I've been able to come up with is a general idea, not a specific woman.

May i ask you something else?Do you believe Dareon was the son of Aegon or Aemon?Personally i believe that Aegon just prefered his hothead warrior son instead of his most his more bookish son.

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May i ask you something else?Do you believe Dareon was the son of Aegon or Aemon?Personally i believe that Aegon just prefered his hothead warrior son instead of his most his more bookish son.

I believe he was Aegon's son yes. If Aegon was convinced he was a bastard he probably would have disinherited him at the very least. He wasn't exactly fond of the boy. No, I think.he just thought Daemon was all a King should be, but left nothing decisive about his.will on the matter.

Also, Rhaenys - what hints did you pick up in.the MK and what general ideas did you get?

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May i ask you something else?Do you believe Dareon was the son of Aegon or Aemon?Personally i believe that Aegon just prefered his hothead warrior son instead of his most his more bookish son.

I personally believe that Daeron was Aegon's.. We don't know much about Naerys, but the things that we know does not suggest to me that she would have birthed the king a bastard as heir.

I do believe that she loved Aemon very much, though I'm not at all certain on whether or not it was a romantic relationship, or a close brother-sister relationship. The fact that Naerys died shortly after Aemon is telling on that.

Aegon and Daeron were just completely different, which seems to have put a strain on their relationship. Aegon slept around, and openly kept mistresses.. That was painful for Naerys, and Daeron, I think, was close to her.

In addition, it seems that Aegon disliked the dornish. He did try to attack Dorne, after all, during his time as a King.. And Daeron had been married to the Dornish princess Mariah by then (and had at least one child with her). With Aegon plotting a possible war (if that was the goal of the wooden dragons) against Mariah's family, whilst Daeron was married to her and had children with her, that must have strained their relationship further.

I believe he was Aegon's son yes. If Aegon was convinced he was a bastard he probably would have disinherited him at the very least. He wasn't exactly fond of the boy. No, I think.he just thought Daemon was all a King should be, but left nothing decisive about his.will on the matter.

Also, Rhaenys - what hints did you pick up in.the MK and what general ideas did you get?

Well, the only thing I could think off (after havign read TMK multiple times in an attempt to find something..), I only came up with the fact that Bittersteel and Daemon's sons (and thus possibly daughters and wife, as they seem to have still been alive by then) spend part of their exile in Tyrosh. Did Daemons wife come from Tyrosh, and were they protected by her family?

At the same time, I might totally be looking into that passage way too much, and have overlooked the actual hint. I could think of nothing else though. Even though this does not yield a name for a wife of his.

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I personally believe that Daeron was Aegon's.. We don't know much about Naerys, but the things that we know does not suggest to me that she would have birthed the king a bastard as heir.

I do believe that she loved Aemon very much, though I'm not at all certain on whether or not it was a romantic relationship, or a close brother-sister relationship. The fact that Naerys died shortly after Aemon is telling on that.

Aegon and Daeron were just completely different, which seems to have put a strain on their relationship. Aegon slept around, and openly kept mistresses.. That was painful for Naerys, and Daeron, I think, was close to her.

In addition, it seems that Aegon disliked the dornish. He did try to attack Dorne, after all, during his time as a King.. And Daeron had been married to the Dornish princess Mariah by then (and had at least one child with her). With Aegon plotting a possible war (if that was the goal of the wooden dragons) against Mariah's family, whilst Daeron was married to her and had children with her, that must have strained their relationship further.

Well, the only thing I could think off (after havign read TMK multiple times in an attempt to find something..), I only came up with the fact that Bittersteel and Daemon's sons (and thus possibly daughters and wife, as they seem to have still been alive by then) spend part of their exile in Tyrosh. Did Daemons wife come from Tyrosh, and were they protected by her family?

At the same time, I might totally be looking into that passage way too much, and have overlooked the actual hint. I could think of nothing else though. Even though this does not yield a name for a wife of his.

Ah, I see. That's a fair point I guess. It could just be remnants of the old Targaryen hatred from the times of the Triarchy that led to them being sheltered though.

On candidate I thought of was House Velaryon. Daemon was related to them through his mother Daena, and they could have been miffed about Aegon III:s daughters being passed over. But that is, of.course, just speculation

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