R+L=J v100

[Ser Duncan the Small]

1) Benjen + Lysa = Jon. This is the best one yet.

2) Is Lysa a secret Targ?

3) THE LEMON TREE IS A SECRET TARG

Lol. Gotcha.

Lemon tree a targ, Sansa likes Lemon cakes... SANSA/ALAYNE TARGARYEN

[Julia Martell]

Lemon tree a targ, Sansa likes Lemon cakes... SANSA/ALAYNE TARGARYEN

Ned had a frozen Rhaegar sperm sample and he secretly impregnated Cat with it! It all makes sense!

[Ser Duncan the Small]

Ned had a frozen Rhaegar sperm sample and he secretly impregnated Cat with it! It all makes sense!

Ned used this frozen sample during a fiery love making session.

Hence the title of the series: A Song of Ice and Fire

GRRM can admit it now, I've figured it out

[BearQueen87]

Ned used this frozen sample during a fiery love making session.

Hence the title of the series: A Song of Ice and Fire

GRRM can admit it now, I've figured it out

*slow clap* brilliant

[mambru]

Congratulations on reaching 100. I'm glad I've played an exceedingly small part in helping to get to the celebration.

[The Snowfyre Chorus]

Well, if you acknowledge that Lyanna is at the TOJ--which is maybe the one thing we know beyond a doubt--then I don't know why she and Aegon are hiding out together given that Aegon isn't Lyanna's son.

And why doesn't Ned take baby Aegon? Does he just leave the baby there, hoping Varys would come along and collect the infant?

I recognize that it's natural to assume Lyanna was at the tower, given the way the memory is presented through Ned's fever dream. I'm not sure that makes it a sure thing. Is there something more substantial that confirms the idea?

Either way, I don't see how Lyanna's presence or absence would change the fact that, if Aegon was alive, then KG activity almost by definition starts to look like a big hint that he was on the scene.

[Ser Duncan the Small]

I recognize that it's natural to assume Lyanna was at the tower, given the way the memory is presented through Ned's fever dream. I'm not sure that makes it a sure thing. Is there something more substantial that confirms the idea?

Either way, I don't see how Lyanna's presence or absence would change the fact that, if Aegon was alive, then KG activity almost by definition starts to look like a big hint that he was on the scene.

Well is there anything suggesting that Lyanna's not there?

I believe in the beginning of GoT when Ned is recalling it, before he even goes to Kings Landing, he talks about how in the Tower "They" find him holding her corpse. Don't hold me to it cause I'm not 100% on it

[BearQueen87]

I recognize that it's natural to assume Lyanna was at the tower, given the way the memory is presented through Ned's fever dream. I'm not sure that makes it a sure thing. Is there something more substantial that confirms the idea?

Either way, I don't see how Lyanna's presence or absence would change the fact that, if Aegon was alive, then KG activity almost by definition starts to look like a big hint that he was on the scene.

The first mention of Lyanna is in Eddard I; Ned thinks about Lyanna in her bed of blood. Then, chapters later, we have his TOJ dream that beings with "Lyanna in her bed of blood" and he wakes up promising Lya something, which is exactly what he was thinking about in Eddard I. Lya was in the TOJ for sure, IMO.

And, we're going to disagree about the KG. Dayne and Whent are there because they were R's sworn shield first and then were ordered to stay at the TOJ when R returned to KL. Hightower is more complicated but by the time Ned gets to the TOJ, Jon is born, Aegon/Aerys/Rhaegar are dead and Jon is king.

[Ser Duncan the Small]

I recognize that it's natural to assume Lyanna was at the tower, given the way the memory is presented through Ned's fever dream. I'm not sure that makes it a sure thing. Is there something more substantial that confirms the idea?

Either way, I don't see how Lyanna's presence or absence would change the fact that, if Aegon was alive, then KG activity almost by definition starts to look like a big hint that he was on the scene.

Doesn't make sense for Aegon to be there and not Rhaella Rhaenys. Why not take measures to ensure his entire family is safe, not just Aegon. And who is the baby with Elia then? Still part of the Varys plot I guess? So Varys has stolen a baby that is actually not Aegon thinking it was Aegon and shipped him across the Narrow Sea to a presumably dead drunkard former Lord who raises him as Aegon?

[Lady Gwynhyfvar]

100? Already? Well you all have been chatty haven't you?

You know I think a little trip down memory lane is in order here. There have been many topics on R+L=J, here are a few of the greats.

The great sugar free gummy bear revenge debate of 2013. Aka how to give another poster diarrhea.

Ruby Chevrolet "Jon burnt his hand so he can't be a Targaryen, because Targaryens are fire proof" This went on for a months.

Sanka the little thread that wouldn't quit. Single greatest R+L=J thread of all time.

Tower of Joy or it's a boy.

Wheres Wylla?

Math threads. It's funny these often get annoying, but the irony of the math threads is that the title of the thread is in fact a mathematical formula.

Married or not married?

The Kingsguard.

Timelines.

Ser Arthur Dayne the Sword of the morning or Morning wood?

Promise me the broken promise.

Blue roses, that are not really that blue.

Yiggy, kissed by fire. Well kissed by fire in more ways than one, in more places than one for that matter

There was a month long debate on the legality of weirwood weddings.

Good times, good times.

Now I was told I promised John Stamos, I seem to recall in fact that my feelings on Stamos are not all that kind. However if you want a little John Stamos, you shall have a little John Stamos and remember ladies this could be you. It's not you, but in an alternate reality like a parallel universe of something it could be you.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ocj_sGKFOIA

OMG, how could I have forgotten Sanka? And the gummy bears! :rofl:

And sometimes I really miss Ruby Chev... just for a minute. I like running in circles as much as the next person, but those were some dizzying arguments.

Anyways, good memories Ser C! :cheers:

(I have to add that you left out the obstetrical thread, though probably for good reason)

Stamos and Saget snuggling was just.... :lmao:

[The Snowfyre Chorus]

Doesn't make sense for Aegon to be there and not Rhaella Rhaenys. Why not take measures to ensure his entire family is safe, not just Aegon. And who is the baby with Elia then? Still part of the Varys plot I guess? So Varys has stolen a baby that is actually not Aegon thinking it was Aegon and shipped him across the Narrow Sea to a presumably dead drunkard former Lord who raises him as Aegon?

Oh - no, I wouldn't suggest anything as complicated as there being two fake Aegons. One is enough, don't you think? My suggestion was based entirely on the notion that young Griff might be the real deal - and if so, then there must be enough room in Martin's story to make an account of his departure from KL. Martin hasn't given us that yet, but if it is possible that young Aegon was alive after the Sack - and during Ned's southron sweep - it seems to me that we'd have to consider the possibility that he was the child under KG protection, since he would be the clear priority.

[Ser Duncan the Small]

Oh - no, I wouldn't suggest anything as complicated as there being two fake Aegons. One is enough, don't you think? My suggestion was based entirely on the notion that young Griff might be the real deal - and if so, then there must be enough room in Martin's story to make an account of his departure from KL. Martin hasn't given us that yet, but if it is possible that young Aegon was alive after the Sack - and during Ned's southron sweep - it seems to me that we'd have to consider the possibility that he was the child under KG protection, since he would be the clear priority.

So the KG knew about Aegon being swapped. Does this Exclude Jamie? Also, are we believing Lyanna wasn't at ToJ, then where does Ned find her and how? IF she is at the ToJ with this Aegon babe, why?

ETA: It also doesn't explain why Rhaegar would knowingly save Aegon while leaving Rhaenys and even Elia.

[BearQueen87]

Oh - no, I wouldn't suggest anything as complicated as there being two fake Aegons. One is enough, don't you think? My suggestion was based entirely on the notion that young Griff might be the real deal - and if so, then there must be enough room in Martin's story to make an account of his departure from KL. Martin hasn't given us that yet, but if it is possible that young Aegon was alive after the Sack - and during Ned's southron sweep - it seems to me that we'd have to consider the possibility that he was the child under KG protection, since he would be the clear priority.

Sure. A possibility. There are many things that are possible. But probable? Not so much, IMO. But that's why RLJ works, I think. It's both very possible given what we know so far (R took L and Jon was born before at the end of the Rebllion) but it's also very probable given all the deeply laid clues.

So yes, that might be Aegon in that tower but it's not probable.

[Ser Duncan the Small]

Sure. A possibility. There are many things that are possible. But probable? Not so much, IMO. But that's why RLJ works, I think. It's both very possible given what we know so far (R took L and Jon was born before at the end of the Rebllion) but it's also very probable given all the deeply laid clues.

So yes, that might be Aegon in that tower but it's not probable.

Also wouldn't make sense why Lyanna is in her bloody bed. Unless we're thinking Aegon was there and Lyanna still had Jon.

[The Snowfyre Chorus]

Sure. A possibility. There are many things that are possible. But probable? Not so much, IMO. But that's why RLJ works, I think. It's both very possible given what we know so far (R took L and Jon was born before at the end of the Rebllion) but it's also very probable given all the deeply laid clues.

So yes, that might be Aegon in that tower but it's not probable.

Sure would provide a better explanation for the KG presence though, don't you think?

Also wouldn't make sense why Lyanna is in her bloody bed. Unless we're thinking Aegon was there and Lyanna still had Jon.

It might force us to consider the possibility that Ned found Lyanna somewhere else, yes. Or it might not, depending.

[BearQueen87]

Sure would provide a better explanation for the KG presence though, don't you think?

Mmmm....nope. lol. I mean...I guess? But it's so far out there (how does baby Aegon get there???) that I think it's very low on the probability scale.

I think Jon is legit (R and L) were married and the 3KG being there is GRRM giving his audience the answers before they realize it.

[Ser Duncan the Small]

Sure would provide a better explanation for the KG presence though, don't you think?

It might force us to consider the possibility that Ned found Lyanna somewhere else, yes. Or it might not, depending.

Well, according to his fever dream (yes, fever dream) he hears Lyanna shouting his name as the Showdown begins at ToJ. We can speculate that this is a fever dream and he's hearing the shout in his head, but I like to think it was more of the physical hearing of it at the time.

[JonBranRickon]

Yes, I bellieve that to be true as well.

[RumHam]

This recent David Chase/Sopranos ending thing, and the reaction to it made me think about R+J=L. I suspect that if Martin confirmed or denied the theory we'd still have people arguing that he was wrong.

[BearQueen87]

This recent David Chase/Sopranos ending thing, and the reaction to it made me think about R+J=L. I suspect that if Martin confirmed or denied the theory we'd still have people arguing that he was wrong.

I suspect that even after we have 7 books, people will still find fault.