R+L=J v100

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Then at least add the Blackwood...

Bloodraven is a known warg and his mother was a Blackwood.

Ned's and Lyanna's unknown mother,or grandmother could have been a Blackwood..

One man in a thousand is born a skinchanger, and one skinchanger in a thousand could be a greenseer.--aSoS chapter 9

Ned's children have a greater than 1 in a thousand chance.

We know there was a Blackwood in the Stark tree: Edwyle Starks mother. Who knows, there might have been another one earlier..

[Jon Weirgaryen]

Makes sense. That's another thing I'd like to k now, how did that conversation go, and when? During the Greyjoy Rebellion perhaps? When Ned and Robert reunite

Maybe. Maybe only in AGoT 12 Eddard II, when we see it in the text. I'd imagine big Bob first saw Jon in Winterfell at the welcoming feast. There was no need to tell before that. Robert would have heard Cersei gossipping but not really be listening I imagine.

I always imagined that Ned would make a stop at KL to tell Robert about Lyanna's death, and that Ned would mention it shortly there, perhaps.

Possibly, but why should he, if baby Jon was not travelling with him at the time.

[BearQueen87]

Possibly, but why should he, if baby Jon was not travelling with him at the time.

Well Ned had to have told Robert something becasue Robert knows the name Wylla as being Jon's mother. Robert and Ned are talking about their various women and Robert says, "yours was...Aleena? No. You told me once. Was it Merryl? You know the one I mean, your bastard's mother"

So Ned told Robert something about Jon

[MtnLion]

So my initial question was simply to wonder whether anyone had really stepped back to consider how the survival of young Aegon might impact more frequently rehearsed version of the story. And the Kingsguard issue looked like one piece that might be better explained if it could be connected to Aegon. What I'm seeing in responses here, generally, is that Jon's legitimacy is taken as so firmly established that Young Griff's Targaryen claim is not worth a serious look. Which is fine - I just thought I'd ask.

There are so many flaws with Aegon at the tower theory that it really does not merit any thought, at all. Who and how would move Aegon there, under what motive? (The Kingsgurad at the tower are NOT at King's Landing a fortnight before the sack, nor after the sack. Only Jaime is in King's Landing (for the Kingsguard) for that fortnight.) When the Targaryens are presented to Robert, Ned is present, and remembers the ruin of Aegon's skull. If Aegon was at the tower, why is Ned so confused? If one wants to protect Aegon, you don't send him on a journey overland, through the Reach and Stormlands, during the rebellion. Overland is just foolish, send him via boat to Dragonstone, or to Essos. Then you have all of the subtleties that are buried int he texts that suddenly become meaningless.

No, fAegon is fake, and Aegon is dead, dead, dead.

[Jon Weirgaryen]

Well Ned had to have told Robert something becasue Robert knows the name Wylla as being Jon's mother. Robert and Ned are talking about their various women and Robert says, "yours was...Aleena? No. You told me once. Was it Merryl? You know the one I mean, your bastard's mother"

So Ned told Robert something about Jon

Why could Robert not just have picked up gossip?

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Why could Robert not just have picked up gossip?

In that case, Ned could have let gossip being spread around while he was at KL?

[Ser Duncan the Small]

Well Ned had to have told Robert something becasue Robert knows the name Wylla as being Jon's mother. Robert and Ned are talking about their various women and Robert says, "yours was...Aleena? No. You told me once. Was it Merryl? You know the one I mean, your bastard's mother"

So Ned told Robert something about Jon

Yes, he knows about Jon. Maybe he is with him when he tells him of Lyannas death. Robert likely says hey, who's this baby crying around here? Ned says oh, my bastard.... Robert not believing Ned to dishonor himself like that must needs hear the tale.

[stateofdissipation]

We know there was a Blackwood in the Stark tree: Edwyle Starks mother. Who knows, there might have been another one earlier..

There are three mentions of Edwayle;

1. A Clash of Kings, Chapter 69, Bran.

2. A Storm of Swords, Chapter 45, Catelyn.

A Game of Thrones, Chapter 24, Bran.

Which one has mention of Blackwood entering into the Stark line?

[Mithras]

There are three mentions of Edwayle;

• A Clash of Kings, Chapter 69, Bran.
• A Storm of Swords, Chapter 45, Catelyn.
• A Game of Thrones, Chapter 24, Bran.

Which one has mention of Blackwood entering into the Stark line?

Spoiler from TWOIAF

Stark family tree

This tree has some minor errors and not final, as confirmed by Ran.

It is Melantha Blackwood, wife of William Stark.

[Ygrain]

Weren't they both at the Trident, at what point did they join forces? At what point would Ned get Wylla/Ashara/another pregnant for Jon to be the right age? There's obviously a possibility that the timeline fits, because there are too many suspicious minds with no love for Ned (Varys/LF/Lannisters) for it to be completely impossible but accepted in Westeros.

Jon was conceived a couple of months into the Rebellion. However, it's not like Ned exactly telegraphed around his (supposed) birthday, so all those suspicious mind would probably learn of Jon only much later after the war, which would rather obfuscate the timelines and they'd have no reason to suspect that Lord Stark didn't do what everyone does during a war.

I always imagined that Ned would make a stop at KL to tell Robert about Lyanna's death, and that Ned would mention it shortly there, perhaps.

In that case, Ned could have let gossip being spread around while he was at KL?

Or gossip spread only slowly from the North, months and years after the war, and when Ned and Robert met during Balon's rebellion, Robert asked about it...

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Jon was conceived a couple of months into the Rebellion. However, it's not like Ned exactly telegraphed around his (supposed) birthday, so all those suspicious mind would probably learn of Jon only much later after the war, which would rather obfuscate the timelines and they'd have no reason to suspect that Lord Stark didn't do what everyone does during a war.

Or gossip spread only slowly from the North, months and years after the war, and when Ned and Robert met during Balon's rebellion, Robert asked about it...

Possible, indeed.

[RumHam]

This is sort of a morbid question, but if a woman dies in childbirth or soon after, would it be visibly apparent that she had been pregnant? I think Robert would have wanted to see her body and say goodbye when Ned passed through King's Landing.

[Julia Martell]

This is sort of a morbid question, but if a woman dies in childbirth or soon after, would it be visibly apparent that she had been pregnant? I think Robert would have wanted to see her body and say goodbye when Ned passed through King's Landing.

It would take, like, quite some time, to get from Starfall the King's Landing, she would have been bones by then.

But to answer you first question, yeah it takes a while for the uterus to contract down and the internal organs to move back into their original positions. (This is referred to as postpartum jelly belly, at least by me.)

[anonnyscouse]

Could you link to it? I'll see for myself then. Timeline might be wrong in many possible ways. Most people don't grab that it is roundabout 2 years from the Grand Tourney at Harrenhal to Jon's birth.

eta: Just in case you return to read this, @anonnyscouse, this SSM 1040 Chronology is key to solve some of the stuff you are struggling with.

After Aegon's birth. Nearly a year after Harrenhal.

eta: he learned he could not have any more children by his wife Elia and since he believed he needed a third (three heads of the dragon) then ventured to run away with Lyanna.

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/116357-am-i-in-a-minority-of-one/ that was the thread.

I'm not suggesting that Jon was conceived at Harrenhall, just that it can't be impossible that Jon is Ned's bastard if everyone in Westeros believes it.

[BearQueen87]

Why could Robert not just have picked up gossip?

Well Robert does say, "YOU told me once" when speaking directly to Ned. So either Ned told in KL or rumors came down from the North and Robert asked at the Greyjoy revolt.

[RumHam]

It would take, like, quite some time, to get from Starfall the King's Landing, she would have been bones by then.

But to answer you first question, yeah it takes a while for the uterus to contract down and the internal organs to move back into their original positions. (This is referred to as postpartum jelly belly, at least by me.)

Ah ok. I have no idea how long it takes someone to decompose. God that must have been a horrible trip.

[BearQueen87]

Ah ok. I have no idea how long it takes someone to decompose. God that must have been a horrible trip.

I know some people have mentioned a few times that Ned burnt Lyanna's flesh off to get the bones (Targaryen tradition). Because traveling with a dead body in Dornish heat? ick.

[Julia Martell]

I know some people have mentioned a few times that Ned burnt Lyanna's flesh off to get the bones (Targaryen tradition). Because traveling with a dead body in Dornish heat? ick.

There were probably Silent Sisters at some point.

[RumHam]

I know some people have mentioned a few times that Ned burnt Lyanna's flesh off to get the bones (Targaryen tradition). Because traveling with a dead body in Dornish heat? ick.

There's some primitive form of embalming that the Silent Sisters do if I remember right. Maybe he had something done, either burning or boiling or beetles at Starfall.

[UVA]

Ah ok. I have no idea how long it takes someone to decompose. God that must have been a horrible trip.

Hasn't it been suggested before that Ned must have give over Lyanna's body to the Silent Sisters for burial prep before he headed north put of Dorne?

ETA: Julia, that's what I thought the SS did -- I don't know what the process is called, stripped a corpse of flesh, clean the bones? IRRC, Ned's headless body was prepared in a similar way. Several charcter's, when referring to someone's remains as "Ned's bones" "Lyanna's bones".