Looking in the MUSH for some World Book content

[Lord Varys]

Yeah, that would be the case. And we still don't know if Rhaenyra is Jeyne's cousin through Daella or not. It could be that Daella had only one child - Aemma - and that her Arryn husband took another wife after his death, and Jeyne may be descended from him...

If that the case, then all of Jeyne's heirs may be descended from Lord Ronnel's Arryn cousin, the one who was installed as Lord of the Eyrie after Ronnel and Jonos died, and had a lot of children with his Royce wife. Joffrey would be the remotest of those cousins...

[Ravenkingsamurai]

In that scenario, it would kind of be almost certain that the line of Arryns who continued the line (so Joffrey, in this case) do not have Targaryen blood (through Daella)? Seeing as how "unlikely heir" suggests a rather distant cousin..?

I would agree, except if you read the recent WOIAF extract on the vale closely it mentions somthing along the lines of " to this day, house Arryn has targaryen blood."

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

It might also be possible that Rhaenyra and Jeyne were somewhat more distant cousins? Second cousins, perhaps?

I would agree, except if you read the recent WOIAF extract on the vale closely it mentions somthing along the lines of " to this day, house Arryn has targaryen blood."

That's the unofficial preview, and we should not discuss that here :) And I seem to recall, that that statement was the other way around

[Arataniello]

I think that the Kingsguard has essentialy made up by Ran and Linda, but for what it's worth, Ser Galfrid Velaryon and Ser Sorin of Sevenstreams entered the KG the same day on 163. The seventh current member hasn't been named, as far as I know.

The Oakheart in Daeron's KG is mentioned in the main books, since he is referenced in Arys Oakheart's chapter. Thanks for the clarification on the source of the others.

Interesting to find out why it took so long between the deaths in Dorne (161) of some KG and their replacement only in 163 (assuming the two newbies were taking over from the Dorne deaths).

[HexMachina]

This is one of the bits of info I believe to be canon. The fact that Borros was a second son makes sense (he was not supposed to inherit, and that would explain why he is illiterate and doesn't keep his father's allegiances). Also, we know that Rhaenyra and Syrax attacked the Stormlands at some point, and as co-participant in Luke's death Borros should have been the main target of the raid.

Really? When/where did we find this out?

ETA: Or is this when she is supposed to have roasted Ser Byron Swann?

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Really? When/where did we find this out?

ETA: Or is this when she is supposed to have roasted Ser Byron Swann?

I think this is meant:

Haldon was unimpressed. “Even Duck knows that tale. Can you tell me the name of the knight who tried the same ploy with Vhagar during the Dance of the Dragons?”

Tyrion grinned. “Ser Byron Swann. He was roasted for his trouble … only the dragon was Syrax, not Vhagar.”

“I fear that you’re mistaken. In The Dance of the Dragons, A True Telling, Maester Munkun writes—”

“—that it was Vhagar. Grand Maester Munkun errs. Ser Byron’s squire saw his master die, and wrote his daughter of the manner of it. His account says it was Syrax, Rhaenyra’s she-dragon, which makes more sense than Munken’s version. Swann was the son of a marcher lord, and Storm’s End was for Aegon. Vhagar was ridden by Prince Aemond, Aegon’s brother. Why should Swann want to slay her?”

However, the current MUSH states Borros' death as occurring in 131AC, while, if I understand correctly, he wasn't in the MUSH 1.0

That would suggest that Borros died in the last half year of the war, or perhaps even after Aegon II died (the fighting might have continued), and that he thus didn't die when Syrax attacked the Stormlands (if the attack didn't take place on a Stormlander outside of the Stormlands)

[Lord Varys]

It was also suggested that Ser Byron hung out in KL when Rhaenyra took the city, remained a secret Green loyalist, and tried to take out Syrax while she was chained up in the Red Keep.

On the other hand, the guys writing about this would have to be really ignorant about the Dance since Vhagar clearly was no longer in the Stormlands but in the Riverlands when Rhaenyra took the city. It would thus indeed make more sense if Rhaenyra, Jace, and some other people paid the Stormlands a visit in the early phase of the war...

[The hairy bear]

It is very difficult to understand how Grand Maester Munkun erred. Surely there were Stormlonds in the black camp, so misattributing House Swann's allegiance could be justified. But to confusing Syrax and Vhagar makes no sense at all.

Perhaps Munkun thought (as we think, if we judge only by the information we have) that Rhaenyra (and Syrax) didn't move from Dragonstone until the fall of KL, and then stayed there until Syrax's death. Then, when Munkun heard the story of Ser Byron's squire, he thought that he was mistaken and decided that the other huge she-dragon that moved around during the war was a more likely suspect.

In any case, Rhaenyra surely paid the Stormlands a visit during the war (be it before or after taking KL). But as RT says, it can't have resulted in Borros death as the date is 131.

Borros death at 131 had to be a fatal blow to the greens, specially if that meant that Jaehaera was captured by the blacks. I wonder if the war ended with Aegon II's suicide: with his two sons dead, his daughter caputred, and himself unable to walk and in great pain, perhaps he decided that he no longer wanted to fight.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

I had forgotten for a moment that Jaehaera was send to Storm's End. Since Maelor seems to be dead by the time Helaena kills herself, perhaps the blacks had figured out where to find Aegon's children.. (Oldtown, for Alicent's family, Storm's End, for their strongest supporter).

Which makes you wonder.. Was Rhaenyra's attack on the Stormlands (if it really was an attack on the Stormlands, and not an attack on Stormlanders elsewhere) an attempt to take SE so she could get Jaehaera..?

It's times like these I really whish tpatq would have included details on Maelors death.. :)

[Lord Varys]

I'd expect that Aegon II was either killed/executed by the Blacks, who took KL in the end of the war, or was murdered by some of his own men who realized that the war (or rather they, since we don't really know if the Lannisters or Hightowers could have mustered yet another army) was lost because the Blacks were about to take the city.

A suicide would be real surprise to me, since a man like Aegon - who suffered so much to stay alive during the Dance - does appear to have the personality to take his own life.

We also don't really yet if truly all the Stormlords stood with Storm's End, or if some ended up declaring for Rhaenyra, opposing Lord Borros.

If the Swanns joined Rhaenyra, Byron and other Swanns may have turned up in KL eventually, and then Byron decided for some reason to attack Syrax.

Anyway, this story seems to be some sort of little-known anecdote, only supported by the letter of Byron's squire, which was quoted by Munkun, which, in turn, seems to suggest that it was a rather small affair, nothing covered by the major histories of the Dance.

[Hardstone]

If Vhagar (unconfirmed) and Syrax (yellow) were a similar colour, maybe the squire got them mixed up?

Who are the big Green players left in the war?

We've obviously got Borros fielding the Stormlands and not having done anything thus far, Unwin Peake has just marched home with the Reach King's Men and the Lannisters are completely annihilated.

[Lord Varys]

Yeah, Borros seems to be the last major supporter Aegon II has still left, although I imagine the Hightowers could still field some men, if they wanted to (although there doesn't seem to be an adult Lord Hightower left to lead them). The Lannisters should indeed be completely annihilated, since the Red Kraken attacked the Westerlands with all his might.

Aegon III still has Jeyne Arryn - assuming that there was no fighting in the Vale, the strength of House Arryn would not yet be spent -, the remnants of Addam Velaryon's host made up of Riverlords, and whatever men Lord Cregan Stark has assembled at Winterfell. The fact that he didn't come down south during TPatQ doesn't mean he isn't coming at all...

The Blacks also had the Three Sisters (people were gathering at Sisterton at the beginning of the war), and, according to a short line at the beginning of TPatQ, Tarth. No idea if both regions were ever involved in the war, but there could have been skirmishes at sea. The Tarths could have joined the Velaryon fleet during the Battle of the Gullet (this section of the story was clearly heavily edited).

[Hardstone]

In light of the new AMA, Jeyne Arryn sent 10,000 troops under the command of the Corbray brothers but where and when were they utilised? They must have joined the Riverlords (who were far from full strength) on the Kingsroad to take out Borros (and his fresh levys) but why were the youths (Kermit, Ben) in charge?

[Ramsay's Penguins]

I had forgotten for a moment that Jaehaera was send to Storm's End. Since Maelor seems to be dead by the time Helaena kills herself, perhaps the blacks had figured out where to find Aegon's children.. (Oldtown, for Alicent's family, Storm's End, for their strongest supporter).

Which makes you wonder.. Was Rhaenyra's attack on the Stormlands (if it really was an attack on the Stormlands, and not an attack on Stormlanders elsewhere) an attempt to take SE so she could get Jaehaera..?

It's times like these I really whish tpatq would have included details on Maelors death.. :)

Rhaenyra attacked the Stormlands?

In light of the new AMA, Jeyne Arryn sent 10,000 troops under the command of the Corbray brothers but where and when were they utilised? They must have joined the Riverlords (who were far from full strength) on the Kingsroad to take out Borros (and his fresh levys) but why were the youths (Kermit, Ben) in charge?

I imagine the riverlords had more. 10'000 Arryn troops, but who knows how many riverlands troops. We know of 10'000 other riverlanders over the course of the war, but there would be more to have.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Rhaenyra attacked the Stormlands?

According to Dance, yeah, she did.

[Ramsay's Penguins]

According to Dance, yeah, she did.

Sorry, Dance who?

It makes total sense, but I can't imagine more then a dragon descending upon Storms End.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Sorry, Dance who?

It makes total sense, but I can't imagine more then a dragon descending upon Storms End.

A Dance with Dragons :P

it was a Tyrion POV.. I can't recall the chapter number, but the chapter where he meets Haldon, IIRC

[Lord Varys]

That is by no means certain, guys. That was a theory I and others put forward in a means to explain Ser Byron Swann's (alleged) attempt on Syrax. But, in the end, perhaps it turns out that this guy was actually trying to kill Vhagar, after all? Perhaps this Swann was a secret Black who was trying avenge Luke's death at the hands of Vhagar/Aemond after they returned to the castle?

If not, then Ser Byron could have been a Swann in KL feigning allegiance to Rhaenyra after she took the castle and then trying to slay Syrax after she was chained in the castle yard.

We don't have to assume that there was a Black campaign in the Stormlands. Especially not since TWoIaF does not list a battle there in the sidebar discussing the main battles of the Dance.

However, it is still strange that Rhaenyra and Syrax do not participate in the Battle of the Gullet.

[El-Daddy]

I wish I knew which parts of this MUSH genealogy were canon (if any.) It would be brilliant for filling out the family tree I'm working on.

[Ramsay's Penguins]

A Dance with Dragons :P

it was a Tyrion POV.. I can't recall the chapter number, but the chapter where he meets Haldon, IIRC

Oh of course bwahaha! I though Dance was a user...