Ygrain Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 Quite the reverse. Remaining faithful to their king [Aerys] in spite of everything is a shining example. That would be true if the Targaryen line ended with Aerys. Since it didn't, they are betraying Aerys' legacy if they are leaving his heir defenceless, and their vow, as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stateofdissipation Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 Quite the reverse. Remaining faithful to their king [Aerys] in spite of everything is a shining example. As to the course I suggest they were embarking on - a vow to slay the Usurper and his dog - that makes far more sense than defending the tower and its presumed contents, which they conspicuously are not doing, that's something transient. Win or lose Lyanna's son will never be safe while Bob Baratheon lives. Ned never refers to the kingsguard at the tower as a shining example. Yet these were no ordinary three.--aGoT page 409 Dayne is singled out Ned would not speak of the (Jon's) mother, not so much as a word, but a castle has no secrets, and Catelyn heard her maids repeating tales they had heard from the lips of her husband's soldiers, They whispered of Ser Arthur Dayne, the Sword of Morning deadliest of the seven knights of Aerys's kingsguard, and how their young lord had slain him in single combat. And they told how afterward he had carried Ser Arthur's sword back to the beautiful young sister who awaited him in a castle called Starfall on the shores of the Summer Sea.--aGoT page 62 Brandon fell to him(Rhaegar), and Bronze Yohn Royce, and even the splendid Arthur Dayne, the Sword of morning --aGoT page 608 The passage associated with the kingsguard at the tower of joy being shining examples does not actually name them. The passage does mention Dayne individually. Something his father had told him once when he was little came back to him suddenly. He had asked if the kingsguard were truly the finest knights in the Seven Kingdoms. "No longer," he answered,"but once they were a marvel, a shining lesson to the world." "Was there one who was best of all?" "The finest knight I ever saw was Ser Arthur Dayne, who fought with a blade called Dawn, forged from the heart of a fallen star, They called him the Sword of the Morning, and he would have killed me but for Howland Reed." Father had gotten sad then , and he would say no more,---aCoK page 332 Let's see how Aerys's kingsguard stacked up to Robert's kingsguard. Jamie turned to Meryn Trant. "Ser you have been remiss in teaching our new brothers their duties." "What duties," said Meryn Trant defensively. "Keeping the king alive. How many monarchs have you lost since I left the city? Two, is it!" aSoS BG page 274 Both lost two monarchs. None of Robert's kingsguard died fighting for their king. None of Robert's killed a monarch either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Snowfyre Chorus Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 Quite the reverse. Remaining faithful to their king [Aerys] in spite of everything is a shining example. As to the course I suggest they were embarking on - a vow to slay the Usurper and his dog - that makes far more sense than defending the tower and its presumed contents, which they conspicuously are not doing, that's something transient. Win or lose Lyanna's son will never be safe while Bob Baratheon lives.As I've said before, BC - that's a quality explanation and summary. Makes a great deal of sense. Glad to see you post it all in one piece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Snowfyre Chorus Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 Sure, but I think the proposal that Lyanna wasn't in the Tower takes away from the significance of that scene. Ned was told where to go--the TOJ--to find Lyanna. Why would someone send him to the TOJ if she's really at Starfall?.Perhaps he was told he should go to Starfall. Where would Ned have been at the time he received that information? How would you propose he get to Starfall from that location, without passing the towering question? Does your alternative route look like it would get him there more or less quickly?ETA: clarification Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ygrain Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 Where was Ned when he was told where to go? How would you propose he get to Starfall from that location, without passing that tower? Does your alternative route look like it would get him there more or less quickly? If he is heading to Starfall, he has no reason to enter the tower, though, or those inside to confront him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Duncan the Small Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 Where was Ned when he was told where to go? How would you propose he get to Starfall from that location, without passing that tower? Does your alternative route look like it would get him there more or less quickly? Assuming he's at Storms End and lifting the Siege. Finds out there that Lyanna is in Starfall. Unless he is riding through the Princes Pass and Dorne and crossing the river to get to Starfall, there is no reason for him to be near the tower. He could ride between Highgarden and the Red Mountains , a slightly less direct route but he is not then fording the river at Blackmont. I suppose it's not entirely impossible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julia Martell Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 Have you guys seen this? Hilarious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Duncan the Small Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 If he is heading to Starfall, he has no reason to enter the tower, though, or those inside to confront him. Indeed. there is no reason for the KG to be cantering about outside or approaching this small party of Ned and Co. if they are simply riding through the Pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ygrain Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 Have you guys seen this? Hilarious. A couple of factual mistakes as some people on the list were not present at HH, but other than that... :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Snowfyre Chorus Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 If he is heading to Starfall, he has no reason to enter the tower, though, or those inside to confront him.Agreed. And that is consistent with our text. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Duncan the Small Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 Have you guys seen this? Hilarious. I love how Brandon is only in love with himself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ygrain Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 Oh, there is another chart for Jon Arryn's murder! ETA: ROFLMAO, three dragon heads! :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearQueen87 Posted August 30, 2014 Author Share Posted August 30, 2014 Agreed. And that is consistent with our text. The fact that Ned goes to the tower, then, means that someone told him Lyanna was there and given Lyanna's very ill condition, she was most likely not moved in between the time of giving birth and death. Thus...Lyanna is in the tower. Oh, there is another chart for Jon Arryn's murder! Oh what a tangled web Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ygrain Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 Oh what a tangled webCheck the ETA in the post, it's even more hilarious! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearQueen87 Posted August 30, 2014 Author Share Posted August 30, 2014 Check the ETA in the post, it's even more hilarious! A cat riding a dragon. I need that now....lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Duncan the Small Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 Oh, there is another chart for Jon Arryn's murder! ETA: ROFLMAO, three dragon heads! :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: Rhaenys the black dread, probably gets together with Ser Pounce and births some Targaryen kitty dragons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Duncan the Small Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 A cat riding a dragon. I need that now....lol That would make the internet EXPLODE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearQueen87 Posted August 30, 2014 Author Share Posted August 30, 2014 Rhaenys the black dread, probably gets together with Ser Pounce and births some Targaryen kitty dragons It is known Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Duncan the Small Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 It is known Fur-fireballs for everyone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Snowfyre Chorus Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 The fact that Ned goes to the tower, then, means that someone told him Lyanna was there and given Lyanna's very ill condition, she was most likely not moved in between the time of giving birth and death. Thus...Lyanna is in the tower.Here, the premise is inconsistent with the text. So the conclusion is unreliable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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