BearQueen87 Posted August 30, 2014 Author Share Posted August 30, 2014 Bump until pin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 :ack: (also: I just noticed your new #FUCKHBO siggy. Poor sad JonCon and his red beard) Hey. Jon is quite good at... the "task". And yes, fuck them. It's their loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Duncan the Small Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 Holy moly, I just thought about something.A promise is being swirled around Ned and Lyanna..... a PRINCE THAT WAS PROMISED????!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stateofdissipation Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 Another possibility is that Lyanna wasn't in any position to command them at the time. Remember, the dream narrative is not a literal account of events. Just because she was able to scream for Ned in the dream doesn't mean she would have been able to give orders to the 3KG in reality, even if they would have listened to her.Must...finish...ToJ essay... 3000 words down, about 600 to go...Lyanna screamedAs they came together in a rush of steel and shadow, he could hear Lyanna screaming. .---aGoT page 410 and she called for Eddard."Eddard" she called, A storm of rose petals blew across the blood-streaked sky, as blue as the eyes of death."Lord Eddard," she called again.--aGoT page 410 That being said, You'll need to wait for future books to find out more about the Tower of Joy and what happened there, I fear.I might mention, though, that Ned's account, which you refer to, was in the context of a dream... and a fever dream at that. Our dreams are not always literal.--GRRM http://www.westeros....he_Tower_of_Joy Luckily we have a non-dream scene to establsh Lyanna was able to communicate."I was with her when she died." Ned reminded the king. "She wanted to come home, to rest beside Brandon and father." He could still hear her at times. Promise me, she had cried in that room that smelled of blood and roses. Promise me, Ned. The fever had taken her strength and her voice had been as faint as a whisper, but when he had given his word, the fear had gone out of his sister's eyes. Ned remembered the way she had smiled then, how tightly her fingers had clutched his as she gave up her hold on life, the rose petals spilling from her palm dead and black. After that he remembered nothing. They found him still holding her body. Howland Reed, had taken her hand from his, Ned could recall none of it. "I bring her flowers when I can," he said. "Lyanna was... fond of flowers."--aGoT page 40 Admittedly we only have that Lyanna died after the showdown. She could have been been worse and then gotten better and then died. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearQueen87 Posted August 30, 2014 Author Share Posted August 30, 2014 Holy moly, I just thought about something.A promise is being swirled around Ned and Lyanna..... a PRINCE THAT WAS PROMISED????!!!!!! *ding ding ding* I'm waiting on Mambru to answer some of these now :)Come out Mambru! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingmonkey Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 Admittedly we only have that Lyanna died after the showdown. How do we know that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Duncan the Small Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 Guys I gotta say Snowfyre Chorus Thread about Aegon maybe being at ToJ has a little more possibility than I originally thought. CHeck it out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julia Martell Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 How do we know that? Well, Ned saw her alive after he fought his way into the Tower, and now she's dead so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearQueen87 Posted August 30, 2014 Author Share Posted August 30, 2014 Well, Ned saw her alive after he fought his way into the Tower, and now she's dead so... They found him "after" (the showdown and Lyanna's death) Ok, I hope we are pinned by morning. I need sleeeeeeeeeep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Duncan the Small Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 They found him "after" (the showdown and Lyanna's death) Ok, I hope we are pinned by morning. I need sleeeeeeeeeep. AGreed, we will argue Jon's height in relation to Targaryen history & lineage on the morrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julia Martell Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 They found him "after" (the showdown and Lyanna's death) Ok, I hope we are pinned by morning. I need sleeeeeeeeeep. This is the second time this week you've stay up for R+L=J thread reasons :-) And the first time today I managed to ninja you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stateofdissipation Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 How do we know that? He dreamt an old dream, of three knights in white cloaks. and a tower long fallen, and Lyanna in her bed of blood.---aGoT page 409 paperback. we do have Lyanna with the 3 knights in white cloaks and the tower. This is the narrator, not Ned's words or the description of the dream. As they came together in a rush of steel and shadow, he could hear Lyanna screaming. .---aGoT page 410 Dead people usually are not big screamers. We also have that she died. "I was with her when she died." Ned reminded the king. "She wanted to come home, to rest beside Brandon and father." He could still hear her at times. Promise me, she had cried in that room that smelled of blood and roses. Promise me, Ned. The fever had taken her strength and her voice had been as faint as a whisper, but when he had given his word, the fear had gone out of his sister's eyes. Ned remembered the way she had smiled then, how tightly her fingers had clutched his as she gave up her hold on life, the rose petals spilling from her palm dead and black. After that he remembered nothing. They found him still holding her body. Howland Reed, had taken her hand from his, Ned could recall none of it. "I bring her flowers when I can," he said. "Lyanna was... fond of flowers."--aGoT page 40 Ned could have gone to the Tower of Joy, talked with Lyanna as she died. Then left and came back to have the showdown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingmonkey Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 Well, Ned saw her alive after he fought his way into the Tower, and now she's dead so...Do we know the fight was before he saw her alive? They found him "after" (the showdown and Lyanna's death)After her death, where does it say after the showdown? As they came together in a rush of steel and shadow, he could hear Lyanna screaming---aGoT page 410Dead people usually are not big screamers.Yep, but remember: I might mention, though, that Ned's account, which you refer to, was in the context of a dream... and a fever dream at that. Our dreams are not always literal.--GRRM ...so we don't know that actually happened. Ned could have gone to the Tower of Joy, talked with Lyanna as she died. Then left and came back to have the showdown.Can anyone point to anything that actually precludes the possibility that the fight with the 3KG happened after Lyanna's death, without assuming that GRRM's warning about the dream isn't a complete red herring? Yes, it's strongly implied in the dream, and yes it seems counter-intuitive at first, but is there any actual evidence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorian Martell Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 Hodor! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stateofdissipation Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 Do we know the fight was before he saw her alive? After her death, where does it say after the showdown? Yep, but remember: ...so we don't know that actually happened. Can anyone point to anything that actually precludes the possibility that the fight with the 3KG happened after Lyanna's death, without assuming that GRRM's warning about the dream isn't a complete red herring? Yes, it's strongly implied in the dream, and yes it seems counter-intuitive at first, but is there any actual evidence?You have a point fine person... He dreamt an old dream, of three knights in white cloaks. and a tower long fallen, and Lyanna in her bed of blood.---aGoT page 409 paperback.we do have Lyanna with the 3 knights in white cloaks and the tower. This is the narrator, not Ned's words or the description of the dream. There is a link but not a timeline. The dreams are not always literal does not apply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ygrain Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 Firebent the wight in Mormonts room. Jon is the next Avatar. After being stabbed he will access the Avatar State and surpress the mutineers with help from Tormund and his member Actually, given Bran's experience in his coma, I think that Jon's Avatar state is not so much out of question :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Weirgaryen Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 When's the class starting? eta: thank you @BaerQueen87 for saving the dot that was last seen in v.98 and got lost thereafter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ygrain Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 /Bump for pin/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingmonkey Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 He dreamt an old dream, of three knights in white cloaks. and a tower long fallen, and Lyanna in her bed of blood.---aGoT page 409 paperback.we do have Lyanna with the 3 knights in white cloaks and the tower. This is the narrator, not Ned's words or the description of the dream.I'm not really clear what you're saying there. It's the narrator, but the narrator is telling us about the contents of Ned's dream. I don't doubt there really was a tower long fallen, Lyanna in her bed of blood and three knights in white cloaks in both reality and Ned's dream, but as for the received order of events (Ned arrives at tower, Ned fights 3KG, Ned talks to Lyanna, Lyanna dies), I'm struggling. I really can't find anything that demands that things happen in this order unless you accept that the dream is a close parallel of what actually happened, in the order they happened -- and that's a leap of faith, particularly given GRRM's comment that "...dreams are not always literal". Did I miss something? Anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Weirgaryen Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 Thanks BearQueen87 for the new thread - and the restoration of the missing dot, too! :ack: (also: I just noticed your new #FUCKHBO siggy. Poor sad JonCon and his red beard) What happened there? You mean no Aegon and no JonCon @ HBO? Or no red beard?? Or what is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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