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Bakker XXIX: Erratics and Impossible Erections


Anatúrinbor

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Small distinction. Wracu were bred to fight the quya.


The Inchies already had Wutteat when they first got to Earwa - he bears a beam weapon wielding Sil into their first battle.



It's possible that both the Wracu and Inchoroi are resistant to magic because they aren't native to Earwa. Like, they literally aren't part of the 'ground'.


Could explain why trying to graft the ability to use sorcery killed the majority of Inchoroi that tried it. (Only six survived.) They seem to have had a much better success rate on their other grafts. (Mouths, penises, wings etc)


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There's anarcane ground - why not anarcane creatures?

It's possible, but then why not anarcane ore? Why not a Mage Plague that kills all Few using anarcane microbes?

Just starts to feel really convenient, a somewhat existing issue with Bakker's Layers of Revelation style.

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Poking my head into this conversation to get some questions I have answered (hopefully).



1) The Seal Team Bashrag were mostly effective because they cut through to the center of the Army of the South right? Or am I misremembering? The Consult took advantage of the Schools being far afield and sent them in as their trump card.



2) Wasn't it mentioned somewhere that Wracu bones were made of iron?



3) Are we to assume that the Ten Yoke Legion that Sorweel warned the AofN about was just defeated after he was rescued by Serwe?

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Poking my head into this conversation to get some questions I have answered (hopefully).

1) The Seal Team Bashrag were mostly effective because they cut through to the center of the Army of the South right? Or am I misremembering? The Consult took advantage of the Schools being far afield and sent them in as their trump card.

2) Wasn't it mentioned somewhere that Wracu bones were made of iron?

3) Are we to assume that the Ten Yoke Legion that Sorweel warned the AofN about was just defeated after he was rescued by Serwe?

Trisk covered most of this, let me repeat it in other words:

Sranc aren’t a problem if you have a shield wall. Therefore the Empire infantry has trained Shield Wall to level 10. Without a shield wall, the Sranc are very fast and vicious and probably kill human infantry.

To deploy the Sranc, the Consult needs to outflank their enemy, or break the shield wall. The Ten Yoke Legion was an attempt to outflank the enemy, catching them in the back before the infantry can regroup to form a shield wall in front of the baggage trains etc.

Bashrags break shield walls as well. But the Consult doesn’t have a large number of Bashrags. Sorcerers will quickly incinerate a Bashrag without breaking a sweat. The Consult needs to either equip many Bashrag with Chorae (which they do) or get rid of the sorcerers by luring them somewhere else.

We have no idea what Bakker’s dragons are. They could easily be machines. Every time they are described, Bakker uses industrial similes (lungs like bellows, bones like iron), and we (as reader) think of living, Tolkien-like dragons only because of the name “Dragon.” They might be intelligent flying machines, used to ride on and mount lasers on. They could themselves be a post-singularity space-faring civilisation, subjugated by the Inchoroi, or sharing their values. We don’t know.

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I have battled Shauriatas in my Dreams. I have been tortured by Mekeritrig. Chased across Eärwa by Aurax and Aurang.

If we're to take this line literally, then it could be about the time Seswatha infiltrated Golgotterath. He was caught by Shae, tortured by Mek, and--after his escape--chased by Aurang & Aurax. But "chased across Earwa" can certainly be metaphorical.

eta: Note that Shae was in his circle of souls form during Seswatha's lifetime. Yet when Achamian saw the Dream in TUC he says "I know [...] How Shauriatas survived all these years. How he managed to cheat Death..." It would not seem that he has seen Shae in a Dream before, either in battle or otherwise. He also did not know how Shae cheated death until then, which implies that other Mandate sorcerers have not seen that form either (otherwise they would've shared it with Akka?)

So either Serwa was speaking metaphorically, she has seen something no one else has seen, or she just made it up.

It's possible that both the Wracu and Inchoroi are resistant to magic because they aren't native to Earwa. Like, they literally aren't part of the 'ground'.

Has there been any speculation about whether Anarcane ground could have come from outer space? As in meteorites?

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I have battled Shauriatas in my Dreams. I have been tortured by Mekeritrig. Chased across Eärwa by Aurax and Aurang.

If we're to take this line literally, then it could be about the time Seswatha infiltrated Golgotterath. He was caught by Shae, tortured by Mek, and--after his escape--chased by Aurang & Aurax. But "chased across Earwa" can certainly be metaphorical.

eta: Note that Shae was in his circle of souls form during Seswatha's lifetime. Yet when Achamian saw the Dream in TUC he says "I know [...] How Shauriatas survived all these years. How he managed to cheat Death..." It would not seem that he has seen Shae in a Dream before, either in battle or otherwise. He also did not know how Shae cheated death until then, which implies that other Mandate sorcerers have not seen that form either (otherwise they would've shared it with Akka?)

So either Serwa was speaking metaphorically, she has seen something no one else has seen, or she just made it up.

Has there been any speculation about whether Anarcane ground could have come from outer space? As in meteorites?

Seswatha was tortured by Mek after the fall of Sauglish. That is in one of Akka's dreams.

Agree he was probably chased by the twins after stealing the Heron spear.

Perhaps Seswatha smashed the crap out of Shae during his and NC's infiltration and left him for dead - Shae barely survives by using his soul trapping set-up to cheat death even though his body is FUBAR (prepared earlier for just such an eventuality, natch, 'cause Shae is such a sneaky bugger). Would explain why it was the brothers doing the chasing. Thus Akka remembers Shae as a more normal looking dude. (Serwa would too, obviously and would also be unsure how Shae managed to survive...)

---

Only anarcane ground I recall is Atrithau.

There are those mysterious circles on the map (one of which centers on Golgotteroth) that Callan brought up here that look like impact craters.

But Atrithau doesn't have one.

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We have no idea what Bakkers dragons are. They could easily be machines. Every time they are described, Bakker uses industrial similes (lungs like bellows, bones like iron), and we (as reader) think of living, Tolkien-like dragons only because of the name Dragon. They might be intelligent flying machines, used to ride on and mount lasers on. They could themselves be a post-singularity space-faring civilisation, subjugated by the Inchoroi, or sharing their values. We dont know.

While I agree with most of your post, I certainly remember the bones of a Wracu being described as being iron coming from a POV of either Akka Or Mimara in one of the Cil Aujas chapters. I think that they even said something along the lines of them being covered in rust. I'll have to check the books when I get home.

About the Heron Spear.

After reading that sample chapter, it does seem like getting info on the location of its location was one of the chief motivators of capturing NC. I mean that plus him being a pain in their ass. The Consult didn't even leave his delivery up to their lackeys. Aurang scooped him up personally.

Regarding Schools and Sorcery.

Shae and his school have Gnostic Cants that have long been forgotten by the Mandate. But what are their numbers? Is the Mengeacca(?) a school with numerous SoR? Nothing I remember has said anything definite about it. I know Kellhus guessed that other Sorcerers were knelling over Aurang's true body, but that wasn't given as fact. Basically I'm just excited to see what the numerous schools that Kellhus has, plus the Daimos and Metagnostic will stack up against the Mengeacca(?) and Quya.

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Shae and his school have Gnostic Cants that have long been forgotten by the Mandate. But what are their numbers? Is the Mengeacca(?) a school with numerous SoR? Nothing I remember has said anything definite about it. I know Kellhus guessed that other Sorcerers were knelling over Aurang's true body, but that wasn't given as fact. Basically I'm just excited to see what the numerous schools that Kellhus has, plus the Daimos and Metagnostic will stack up against the Mengeacca(?) and Quya.

If I recall correctly, numbers of mages in the biggest schools in Far Antiquty, one of which was Mengeacca, was around 50-60. The Mandate used to be a small school by numbers, though great in power, and they had around 160 mages before Aspect-Emperor. I'd still like someone to correct me if I'm wrong.

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Can someone tell me where it says that Seswatha "clawed" the dragon with sorcerous light. I can't find the passage, but sorcerous claws sound more Anagogic than Gnostic. The dragons were made to be effective against Quya, who use the Gnosis, as does Achamian. So could it be that what Seswatha used was the Anagogis - which is more effective against dragons for some reason?


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We have no idea what Bakker’s dragons are. They could easily be machines. Every time they are described, Bakker uses industrial similes (lungs like bellows, bones like iron), and we (as reader) think of living, Tolkien-like dragons only because of the name “Dragon.” They might be intelligent flying machines, used to ride on and mount lasers on. They could themselves be a post-singularity space-faring civilisation, subjugated by the Inchoroi, or sharing their values. We don’t know.

Could be, but in WLW, Wutteat is described by Akka as having eyes and rotted flesh etc. I would guess that Akka and most others would be able to recognize it as being machine-like if it was wholly mechanical.

So I'm guessing that if it is machine-like, it has a biological exoskeleton over a hyperalloy combat chassis. Very tough.

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I would guess that Akka and most others would be able to recognize it as being machine-like if it was wholly mechanical.

What would they compare it to? They don’t have machines in their world, other than the wracu. He can’t have internal dialogue saying “It looked like an oversized locomotive mating with a Jacquard loom”. He has not the concepts to grasp what a machine is, he can’t “recognize” it.

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Can someone tell me where it says that Seswatha "clawed" the dragon with sorcerous light. I can't find the passage, but sorcerous claws sound more Anagogic than Gnostic. The dragons were made to be effective against Quya, who use the Gnosis, as does Achamian. So could it be that what Seswatha used was the Anagogis - which is more effective against dragons for some reason?

Sorry, here's the line:

Though none of the sagas took Seswatha as its subject, he surfaced and resurfaced throughout, like something continually kicked up in the rolling flotsam of events. In "The Kelmariad" he was a principal, the stalwart of a mighty and inconstant king. The same was true of "The Kayûtiad," the verse epic of Celmomas's youngest and most glorious son, Nau‐Cayûti, where Seswatha was both teacher and surrogate father. In "The Book of Generals," the prose inventory of events following Nau‐Cayûti's death, his was the most powerful and most resented voice in council after council. In "The Trisiad," the verse account of Trysë's destruction, he was a shining beacon on the parapets, clawing dragons from the sky with sorcerous light....

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The sagas are repeatedly described as unreliable. I'm not even sure if Seswatha was at the fall of Tryse (2147), as he was captured at Sauglish when it fell in the same year.


Pretty sure he managed to take down Skafra at Eleneot though.



@ HE; The have war machines such as catapults and the screw driven towers used at Shimeh, complex lock etc require lathes and other types of machinery etc. Mainly they seem to lack engines to power their machinery, except in the case of the gate of the library at Sauglish - it's described as arcane machinery, powered by sorcery via the engine of bound souls.



At any rate, if you're making flying robots with some type of internal heat source that can melt metal, iron seems like a very poor choice for the chassis.


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Trisk covered most of this, let me repeat it in other words:

Sranc aren’t a problem if you have a shield wall. Therefore the Empire infantry has trained Shield Wall to level 10. Without a shield wall, the Sranc are very fast and vicious and probably kill human infantry.

To deploy the Sranc, the Consult needs to outflank their enemy, or break the shield wall. The Ten Yoke Legion was an attempt to outflank the enemy, catching them in the back before the infantry can regroup to form a shield wall in front of the baggage trains etc.

Bashrags break shield walls as well. But the Consult doesn’t have a large number of Bashrags. Sorcerers will quickly incinerate a Bashrag without breaking a sweat. The Consult needs to either equip many Bashrag with Chorae (which they do) or get rid of the sorcerers by luring them somewhere else.

Get ready to break your mouse on the new PON Real Time Strategy game...

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