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Jenn33

Why wouldn't Tywin

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Why wouldn't Tywin Lannister give Casterly Rock to Tyrion? Is he that niggardly, or does he just hate his son that much? Any ideas???


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Why wouldn't Tywin Lannister give Casterly Rock to Tyrion? Is he that niggardly, or does he just hate his son that much? Any ideas???

Firstly great use of the word niggardly.... I love how it's almost as if GRRM discovered that word around book 4, since I'm quite sure he never used it up until that point, and then it's once a chapter ! haha .... aaaand secondly... I think he always saw Tyrion as a total embarrassment, the fact he was a dwarf, born to what Tywin believes is the greatest family in Westeros, and killed Tywins wife in childbirth, and laid with whores a plenty. It was all too much for proud Tywin Lannister and even the thought of him carrying the name 'Lannister' made his skin crawl, let alone the fact he was a heir to Casterly Rock !

No way is getting that seat... all he's good for is managing the sewers and drains.

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Firstly great use of the word niggardly.... I love how it's almost as if GRRM discovered that word around book 4, since I'm quite sure he never used it up until that point, and then it's once a chapter ! haha ....

I had not thought you so niggardly. The king Id thought to wed would have laid a wolfskin across my bed before the sun went down

(AGOT Eddard III)

Ebooks can resolve such issues quite easily :)

"Niggard[ly]" phrase in the consecutive books: 1, 1, 6, 2 (+1 in appendix), 3. In fact that is one in which this word is in favor, but it had been known before as well.

Always at your service ;)

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Thanks. I almost didn't use that word simply because people tend to see racial connotations in it ... but it's not anything to do with race. Anyhow, I think you're right that Tywin sees Tyrion as an embarrassment, when what he cannot see is that HE is the embarrassment.


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How many times does Tywin talk about how the most important thing of all is House Lannister? And how many despicable acts, all for the good of the Lannisters, is Tywin responsible for? But he can't bring himself to give Casterly Rock to its rightful heir.



You have to be really stupid to think that the Lannisters would be better off being ruled by Cersei or Jaime instead of Tyrion. Even Joffrey probably saw that. So Tywin hates Tyrion so much that he puts aside his one and only goal in life, empowering the Lannisters. That's gotta hurt.


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How many times does Tywin talk about how the most important thing of all is House Lannister? And how many despicable acts, all for the good of the Lannisters, is Tywin responsible for? But he can't bring himself to give Casterly Rock to its rightful heir.

You have to be really stupid to think that the Lannisters would be better off being ruled by Cersei or Jaime instead of Tyrion. Even Joffrey probably saw that. So Tywin hates Tyrion so much that he puts aside his one and only goal in life, empowering the Lannisters. That's gotta hurt.

I know. And with each and every hurt that Tyrion is given, I have to cry a little. Are they all so blind?? Even Joffrey & Cersei took credit for the Battle of Blackwater, when it was Tyrion that saved them all. That's gratitude.

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You have to be really stupid to think that the Lannisters would be better off being ruled by Cersei or Jaime instead of Tyrion.

I've always had an impression that Tywin refused to see any of Cersei and Jaime's flaws. We've grown to the TV-Tywin's "bring this boy king to heel and his mother, too, if needs be" which was really satisfactory, but in the books it's

Let her say what she likes. Her son needs to be taken in hand before he ruins us all. I blame those jackanapes on the council - our friend Petyr, the venerable Grand Maester, and that cockless wonder Lord Varys. What sort of counsel are they giving Joffrey when he lurches from one folly to the next? Whose notion was it to make this Janos Slynt a lord?

And all through the ASOS, it's basically like he gets angry with her on the rare occasions, but most of the time it's the same song "my sweet daughter told me this, so of course I take it for granted because it's my lovely precious daughter". So no, I don't think that he saw any reason why "Lannisters would not be well being ruled by Cersei or Jaime" (apart from the usual "they're not that devoted to the family as they should be", maybe).

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I've always had an impression that Tywin refused to see any of Cersei and Jaime's flaws. We've grown to the TV-Tywin's "bring this boy king to heel and his mother, too, if needs be" which was really satisfactory, but in the books it's

And all through the ASOS, it's basically like he gets angry with her on the rare occasions, but most of the time it's the same song "my sweet daughter told me this, so of course I take it for granted because it's my lovely precious daughter". So no, I don't think that he saw any reason why "Lannisters would not be well being ruled by Cersei or Jaime" (apart from the usual "they're not that devoted to the family as they should be", maybe).

Yeah, that's a good point. This may be another limitation of the POV structure in the books and we just don't get to see Tywin whine about Cersei and Jaime, However, I agree with you. Tywin in the books seems to turn a blind eye to their flaws.

One thing I just remembered, doesn't Jaime during his time in the Riverlands in Feast talk to a female relative about Tywin and Tyrion? She says something like "Tyrion is Tywin's true son and when I told Tywin that he didn't speak to me for six months".

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Now that Tywin is dead and Tyrion has fled across the Narrow Sea, who do you think WILL end up ruling Casterly Rock? Certainly not Cersei, I think she's too much in love with the idea of her being a powerful queen even though she's long lost any power whatsoever. And as much as I love Jaime, I don't see him ruling as Lord of Casterly Rock. He stated numerous times that he doesn't care for CR; he's always been a fighter, and I think he'll be one until the very end. So that would leave Casterly Rock to Tyrion, right? Another option: Casterly Rock goes down with the Lannisters and some other family takes over.


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Yeah, that's a good point. This may be another limitation of the POV structure in the books and we just don't get to see Tywin whine about Cersei and Jaime, However, I agree with you. Tywin in the books seems to turn a blind eye to their flaws.

One thing I just remembered, doesn't Jaime during his time in the Riverlands in Feast talk to a female relative about Tywin and Tyrion? She says something like "Tyrion is Tywin's true son and when I told Tywin that he didn't speak to me for six months".

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Yeah, that's a good point. This may be another limitation of the POV structure in the books and we just don't get to see Tywin whine about Cersei and Jaime, However, I agree with you. Tywin in the books seems to turn a blind eye to their flaws.

One thing I just remembered, doesn't Jaime during his time in the Riverlands in Feast talk to a female relative about Tywin and Tyrion? She says something like "Tyrion is Tywin's true son and when I told Tywin that he didn't speak to me for six months".

That's because Kevan+Joanna=Cersei&Jaime. Aerys+Joanna=T. Tywin doesn't have any heir as all his "children" are bastards, House Lannister is running out of heirs thanks to Varys. They will end up meeting the same fate as the Reynes and Tarbecks.

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Firstly great use of the word niggardly.... I love how it's almost as if GRRM discovered that word around book 4, since I'm quite sure he never used it up until that point, and then it's once a chapter ! haha .... aaaand secondly... I think he always saw Tyrion as a total embarrassment, the fact he was a dwarf, born to what Tywin believes is the greatest family in Westeros, and killed Tywins wife in childbirth, and laid with whores a plenty. It was all too much for proud Tywin Lannister and even the thought of him carrying the name 'Lannister' made his skin crawl, let alone the fact he was a heir to Casterly Rock !

No way is getting that seat... all he's good for is managing the sewers and drains.

I thought I was the only one who thought that. However, it first appeared in ASOS, when Craster announced that he was a "godly man", and one of the Crows (forget which one) replied, "you are a niggardly man". And from then on, I swear I see that word every 10 pages or so in books 4 and 5.

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I think that Tywin's dislike of Tyrion is due to the same medieval attitude that caused Lord Tarly to hate Sam so much. They just value 'strength and manliness' above all else. It's crucial to the family honor.


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I thought I was the only one who thought that. However, it first appeared in ASOS, when Craster announced that he was a "godly man", and one of the Crows (forget which one) replied, "you are a niggardly man". And from then on, I swear I see that word every 10 pages or so in books 4 and 5.

You guys seriously have some collective hallucination or so :D Yeah, it's a distinctive word that stays in mind and it drew my attention while reading too, but still it's barely there - it does have a pick in ASOS, but even there it's like every 200 pages, not every 10 :P

"Niggard[ly]" phrase in the consecutive books: 1, 1, 6, 2 (+1 in appendix), 3.

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Ok, well still... I find it so strange (almost uncanny) that such an accomplished, wordsmith such as GRRM would not use the word "niggardly" until book 3, and then continue using it regularly after that. Is it possible he just learned the word while writing SOS, and decided, "hell, I like this word, I think I'll keep it!"? He also starts using the word "niggle" and "niggled" around the same, oddly enough, although he uses the term "niggle" more niggardly than he does the term "niggardly".


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Ok, well still... I find it so strange (almost uncanny) that such an accomplished, wordsmith such as GRRM would not use the word "niggardly" until book 3, and then continue using it regularly after that.

"Niggard[ly]" phrase in the consecutive books: 1, 1, 6, 2 (+1 in appendix), 3.

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