cookieeg Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 Well, yes, it's obviously easier to sharpen a blade while sitting. But it's symbolic of the entire event and what has transpired in the Tower, especially when the lines "our knees do not bend..." comes later. Well why do you think the other two dragons will be spoken for by the time they get to Westeros? Tyrion, I agree, will mount Viserion but why does Rhaegal need a rider before Dany lands on the shores of home? But what happens if Victarion and his magic horn control a dragon? Perhaps Jon, with his Targ blood and warg abilities might be able to wrest control of said dragon away from an Ironborn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingmonkey Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 ^Thanks. I couldn't remember exactly what was said. But it definitely sounds like HR has some sort of powers that we don't know about for sure. Very welcome, and totally agreed. The line "breathe mud and run on leaves, and change earth to water and water to earth with no more than a whispered word" is interesting because it's so swamp-related. Might be a kind of poetic way of suggesting that he was just so versed in his environment that it seemed like magic to others, but I'm kind of hoping for a magic Howland myself! We've heard so much about him without seeing him that he's the obvious asoiaf elephant in the room, definitely what I'm waiting to read more about most. Magic powers or no, thanks to a momentary misreading of Bearqueen's post above, I am now utterly convinced that Howland Reed is a master of the secret and deadly Crannogman martial art "Snakes fist". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearQueen87 Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 But what happens if Victarion and his magic horn control a dragon? Perhaps Jon, with his Targ blood and warg abilities might be able to wrest control of said dragon away from an Ironborn. That's possible. I just find the horn to be too convenient to do the promised thing. Welcome to the boards and RLJ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj4iy Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 That's possible. I just find the horn to be too convenient to do the promised thing. Welcome to the boards and RLJ! Yeah, I don't really have much faith in that horn right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ygrain Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 Sixteen pages? Did I miss anything important? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Leftwich Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 Sixteen pages? Did I miss anything important? Semantics, poor reading comprehension, and maths. So... the usual. :bang: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stateofdissipation Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 Sixteen pages? Did I miss anything important? Mostly more of the same.... tower of joy, dragon riders... Howland Reed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearQueen87 Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 Sixteen pages? Did I miss anything important? Did you know that the TOJ is not a topic that everyone agrees upon?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stateofdissipation Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 Semantics, poor reading comprehension, and maths. So... the usual. :bang: apparently 350 plus 600 counts as math... I think there is more creative writing going on than poor reading comprehension and of course naming creative writing and inaccurate quotes... as usual is called semantics. interesting note. I am pretty sure you mean quibbling and not semantics... . quib·ble intr.v. quib·bled, quib·bling, quib·bles 1. To evade the truth or importance of an issue by raising trivial distinctions and objections. 2. To find fault or criticize for petty reasons; cavil. n. 1. A petty distinction or an irrelevant objection. 2. Archaic A pun. se·man·tics n. (used with a sing. or pl. verb) 1. Linguistics The study or science of meaning in language. 2. Linguistics The study of relationships between signs and symbols and what they represent. Also called semasiology. 3. The meaning or the interpretation of a word, sentence, or other language form: Though I am pretty sure this is a semantic point... if one does not care about using the correct word it could be deemed quibbling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Leftwich Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 Sixteen pages? Did I miss anything important? ... and idiocy, evasions, and willful ignorance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stateofdissipation Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 Did you know that the TOJ is not a topic that everyone agrees upon?! Imagine that 11 years after the question was asked and answered, the fact that the question was asked and answered still seems to be elusive. The fact that the answer that was given in 2003 happened to pop back up in aDwD in 2011 has some believing they somehow cancel each other. 2003 Robert Shaw Shaw: Can you explain why the King's Guard chose to stand and fight Ned at the Tower of the Joy instead of protecting the remaining royal family members? The King's Guards don't get to make up their own orders. They serve the king, they protect the king and the royal family, but they're also bound to obey their orders, and if Prince Rhaegar gave them a certain order, they would do that. They can't say, "No we don't like that order, we'll do something else." http://web.archive.o...s3/00103009.htm the answer GRRM gave in 2003 was not changed at all... 2011 The first duty of the Kingsguard was to defend the king from harm or threat. The white knights were sworn to obey the king's commands as well, to keep his secrets, counsel him when counsel was requested and to keep silent when it was not, serve at his pleasure and defend his name and honor. Strictly speaking; it was purely the king's choice whether or not to extend Kingsguard protection to others even those of royal blood. Some kings thought it right and proper to dispatch Kingsguard serve and defend their wives and children, siblings, aunts, uncles, and cousins of a greater or lesser degree,and occasionally their lovers, mistresses and bastards. But others preferred to use household knights for those purposes, whilst keeping their seven as their own personal guard never far from their sides. If the queen had commanded me to protect Hizdahr, i would have no choice but to obey.--aDwD 857-858 It does make one wonder what the explanation for the kingsguard at the tower of joy was before 1996 and 2011 Especially between 2000 and 2011, when all we had for duties of the kingsguard were keeping the king alive. Jamie turned to Meryn Trant. "Ser you have been remiss in teaching our new brothers their duties." "What duties," said Meryn Trant defensively. "Keeping the king alive. How many monarchs have you lost since I left the city? Two, is it!" aSoS BG page 274 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Leftwich Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 .... and dictionary definitions. ETA: The idea that there were dictionary definitions is only a theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stateofdissipation Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 .... and dictionary definitions. ETA: The idea that there were dictionary definitions is only a theory."When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less."--Alice in Wonderland It would seem that Humpty Dumpty shares that view. If only some posters could only take it that far instead they add...."When GRRM uses a word," said in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less."---example--- "once"--aCoK page 332 means "at the tower of joy"Some take t further still..."When I use a word," said in rather a scornful tone, "it means that GRRM uses the word"---example---"Primary" is on aDwD page 857 Paper back writer (paperback writer)Dear Sir or Madam, will you read my book?It took me years to write, will you take a look?It's based on a novel by a man named Lear MartinAnd I need a job, so I want to be a paperback writer,Paperback writer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cutetrixie Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ygrain Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 Ah. I see. Please, PM me if the thread moves forward to something more constructive, I don't have the time for this right now. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 Not fair, you add the "LC H".But yes, I think they would trust a man who is brother of a KG.Isn't kind of stated that Oswell Whent and his brother were together on making The Tourney of HH the parting point for Rhaegar's being crowned?It is stated that the tourney was announced by Lord Whent shortly after a visit from Oswell. The crowning of Lyanna is not associated with that visit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Gwynhyfvar Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 Sixteen pages? Did I miss anything important? Same thought here! But sadly.... .... and dictionary definitions. ETA: The idea that there were dictionary definitions is only a theory. I have a theory you're correct, though I have to admit it's based largely on the proportion of hidden posts :P It is stated that the tourney was announced by Lord Whent shortly after a visit from Oswell.The crowning of Lyanna is not associated with that visit. I think she meant the Tourney was to be a starting point for the plot to crown Rhaegar via a Great Council. To that point-- it's a common theory but it's never stated outright. We know the Tourney was planned, as Rhaenys said, after GH paid a visit to his brother. We know the (approximate) guest list, that Aerys was paranoid and Varys fueled the fire. We know that Rhaegar later said to Jaime that he planned to call a Council, and meant to do so long ago. I don't think we have any other direct evidence of a plot to dethrone Aerys, just reasonable speculation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 I think we can be reasonably sure that Rhaegar did in indeed want to depose Aerys - perhaps he did not want to ascend the Iron Throne as king yet, it could be that he just wanted to be appointed as Prince Regent in his father's stead... But ASoS (Jaime's memory of the conversation with Rhaegar) and ADwD (Barristan's memory) all but confirms that some plot was in the making. And the fact that Rhaegar backed down when Aerys went to Harrenhal, too - that he did back down is sort of confirmed by the fact that the tourney did not turn into a Great Council - also strongly suggests that Aerys still had a very strong power base of his own. With Aerys there, any attempt to discuss a regency or forced abdication was doomed from the start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Gwynhyfvar Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 I think we can be reasonably sure that Rhaegar did in indeed want to depose Aerys - perhaps he did not want to ascend the Iron Throne as king yet, it could be that he just wanted to be appointed as Prince Regent in his father's stead... But ASoS (Jaime's memory of the conversation with Rhaegar) and ADwD (Barristan's memory) all but confirms that some plot was in the making. And the fact that Rhaegar backed down when Aerys went to Harrenhal, too - that he did back down is sort of confirmed by the fact that the tourney did not turn into a Great Council - also strongly suggests that Aerys still had a very strong power base of his own. With Aerys there, any attempt to discuss a regency or forced abdication was doomed from the start.All true, these are the clues I was referring to and as I said-- these are reasonable conclusions to draw. The point was that it's not stated in the text that the ToH was the starting point for a plot, rather that it's strongly hinted at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 Well, if it had been known for sure, Aerys most certainly would have demanded (and taken) Rhaegar's head... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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