TheLastStark Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 NOOOOOOOOOOO. We said no more TOJ! ;) LOL, its going to be hard for some people because that is the base of most people's arguments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLastStark Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 It is going too fast, I am still reading page 5 and while I am typing this there are new articles I cannot read in such a hurry. Slow dowan, calm, doucement, tranquilo, langsam, sakte, easy, what have I missed? I wonder if I'll ever catch up. Never Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearQueen87 Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 Sorry, I must have missed that. The thread did jump a lot of pages overnight. Lol, I'm just teasing. The page jump was because of the ToJ, as usual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearQueen87 Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 It is going too fast, I am still reading page 5 and while I am typing this there are new articles I cannot read in such a hurry. Slow dowan, calm, doucement, tranquilo, langsam, sakte, easy, what have I missed? I wonder if I'll ever catch up. Wait till you get to page 15! I mentioned you and your need to catch up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearQueen87 Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 Ceremonies are everything. Rhaenys Targaryen was the legal Queen Regnant of Westeros upon the death of Jaehaerys I, yet the Realm still crowned her cousin Viserys. The ceremony is very important, of course. But Joffery becomes king as soon as Robert dies, yes? And Tommen becomes King when Joff dies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLastStark Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 And if we are going to get technical, as soon as the Targaryens lost the war, they lost their right to rule. There for there could be no more Targaryen princes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLastStark Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 The ceremony is very important, of course. But Joffery becomes king as soon as Robert dies, yes? And Tommen becomes King when Joff dies. Yes and no, Joff isn't really considered king until he has the ceremony. IIRC he even calls his small council to make arrangements for him to be crowned. So he wasn't technically king yet. Hence public ceremonies are very important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearQueen87 Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 And if we are going to get technical, as soon as the Targaryens lost the war, they lost their right to rule. There for there could be no more Targaryen princes. Perhaps technically in the eyes of Westeros, but not in the eyes of the KG. In the eyes of the KG, Robert is not the rightful king of Westeros. They are loyal to the dynasty of the Targaryens, and the last Targaryen King just so happens to be in that tower. (if RL = Legit J is true). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearQueen87 Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 Yes and no, Joff isn't really considered king until he has the ceremony. IIRC he even calls his small council to make arrangements for him to be crowned. So he wasn't technically king yet. Hence public ceremonies are very important. Right they are important. But they are for, like you said, the public. Everyone inside the Red Keep, like The KG for instance, consider Joff to be King. Barry even says that his place is now with the new king when Ned calls a meeting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrettyPig Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 I agree! But then you talk to people about the Tower of Joy and it's either "Jon is king so they had to guard him" or "Then why didn't they go to king Viserys?" Granted, we now know from the app that Viserys was crowned at some point. We don't know that the Kingsguard at the tower knew that. We don't know who crowned him, and you could question whether they had the authority to do that. I don't have the app....could you post the detail of this crowning? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Weirgaryen Posted September 5, 2014 Author Share Posted September 5, 2014 Never Wait till you get to page 15! I mentioned you and your need to catch up. Omg - it will probably close down before I do. eta: I scrolled ahead: Page 15. This is not natural. I'm waiting for J.W to pop in and be all "wtf...I just created this thread!" My feelings exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLastStark Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 I don't have the app....could you post the detail of this crowning? Also what does the app say about Jon's parentage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumHam Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 I don't have the app....could you post the detail of this crowning? I don't actually have the app, all I can do is point you to the post where Rhaenys told me it was in there: http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/113133-rogue-prince-or-kings-brother-part-ii/?p=5962717 then a couple posts later Lord Varys confirmed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Weirgaryen Posted September 5, 2014 Author Share Posted September 5, 2014 I don't actually have the app, all I can do is point you to the post where Rhaenys told me it was in there: http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/113133-rogue-prince-or-kings-brother-part-ii/?p=5962717 then a couple posts later Lord Varys confirmed it. Interesting. I never knew. Noted. So at that time, Robert is king in most of mainland Westeros and Viserys is king on Dragonstone. And the Dornish are undecided until Jon Arryn sways them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearQueen87 Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 I don't actually have the app, all I can do is point you to the post where Rhaenys told me it was in there: http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/113133-rogue-prince-or-kings-brother-part-ii/?p=5962717 then a couple posts later Lord Varys confirmed it. I know we'll interpret this in a variety of ways (oh how fun!) but here's my take: even though Robert is crowned and has the Iron Throne, someone decided that Viserys was the rightful King because he is the last Targaryen Prince and heir to Aerys' throne. So without the High Setpon or even the acknowledgement of Westeros, these people who crowned Viserys believed him to be King. Therefore, if there was a crowning of Jon it was because the 3KG believed for some reason that he was King and that's why they chose to stay: in their eyes something about Jon made him King (ie: R and L were married) and so they were upholding their duties by staying and defending him instead of going to DS to do likewise with Viserys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 Viserys III Targaryen was crowned on Dragonstone. Else he would have to be merely Prince Viserys, 'the Beggar Prince', rather than 'the Beggar King'. Just as Prince Aegon is still not yet King Aegon VI Targaryen - he will only be styled this way after his coronation, most likely soon at Storm's End. Stannis I Baratheon, too, since he wears a crown. Renly I Baratheon, too, at Highgarden. The kings of the Baratheon dynasty are legally considered to be a cadet branch of House Targaryen. Their claim comes from their paternal grandmother, Princess Rhaelle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLastStark Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 Also what does the app say about Jon's parentage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noelle Snow Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 Also what does the app say about Jon's parentage? Just that Ned returned from the war with a bastard boy (yes boy, not son) and a wet nurse before Cat arrived with Robb and that the rumors around the realm claimed that Ashara was the mom or Wylla or a fisherwoman in the Vale. Says Jon was born during RR and that Ned refuses to speak of Jon's mother to anyone including Cat or Jon and that Jon is raised alongside Ned's own children (not among Jon's siblings but among Ned's children) which is something that is mostly unheard of. In the fact rundown on the side though, Ned is named as the parent and the Stark kids are named as Jon's siblings. At this point in time, that is what's canon. Interestingly, also gives his place of death as Castle Black. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLastStark Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 Just that Ned returned from the war with a bastard boy (yes boy, not son) and a wet nurse before Cat arrived with Robb and that the rumors around the realm claimed that Ashara was the mom or Wylla or a fisherwoman in the Vale. Says Jon was born during RR and that Ned refuses to speak of Jon's mother to anyone including Cat or Jon and that Jon is raised alongside Ned's own children (not among Jon's siblings but among Ned's children) which is something that is mostly unheard of. So when was the war officially over? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumHam Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 Interesting. I never knew. Noted. So at that time, Robert is king in most of mainland Westeros and Viserys is king on Dragonstone. And the Dornish are undecided until Jon Arryn sways them... Yes good point about the Dornish, I was wrong when I said the rest of Westeros saw Bob as king. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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