BearQueen87 Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 ...but no KG. Which is the whole POINT of the KG. Not to die protecting a bastard in a remote location while their King has fled the country with no KG around him. Add in: the KG at the TOJ are very proudly proclaiming that We! Are! KG! They think they are doing their sworn duty: protect the king! ETA: we've jumped 8 pages in like 7 hours...lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daemon Blackfyre IV Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 I have not read the R+L=J threads in a long time so please forgive me if this has been said a hundred times for i have not heard it yet. In ADWD page 418 Melisandre is telling Jon if the hook ie hump i take it lol : " The Lord of Light in his wisdom made us male and female, two parts of a greater whole. In our joining there is power. Power tomake life. Power to make light. Power to cast shadows." She then goes on to talk about how he casts a very large shadow the size of the Wall which i am starting to believe is also a hidden meaning for Targaryen bastards or Kings. Does she believe here that she is Fire and he is Ice ? She obviously knows he has Kings blood rather it is the Stark in him or the Targ i do not know but she want's to mate with him and make shadow babies. the fact that she has not wanted to do this with Stannis again makes me think she knows for sure Jon is AA. So is this proof he has Targ King blood ? or is it just that he is the King of the North ? or just that he has King of the North blood ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Leftwich Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 Yay maths! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
son jnow Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 Jon Snow is Lord of House Snow. Also being a bastard has helped him survive this long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtnLion Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 Yes, it makes sense to Ned. It doesn't need to make sense to us. We don't know what exactly Lyanna told him, so the possibility of her mentioning a vow is there. Or someone else of those others who found Ned might have seen it. Anyway, "We swore a vow" explains nothing. Everyone knows the KG did swear vows. And they knew the basics of what they were. No need for them to state something everyone knew. We do need to be able to make sense of it, or why would the author bother writing it? Why bother reading it, if it doesn't need to make sense to us? We swore a vow means something in particular, and the paramount obligation of the Kingsguard is to protect and defend the king, dying for him if need be. (I change font and color, because it is a quote.) No other vow comes before that one, for a Kingsguard. They would not flee from that obligation when Aerys sent Rhaella and Viserys to Dragonstone, that was "then". What is it "now"? Ned holds these men in high esteem for their honor and skill, because they gave their lives for it, "now". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stateofdissipation Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 ...but no KG. Which is the whole POINT of the KG. Not to die protecting a bastard in a remote location while their King has fled the country. Rhaegar died while these three kingsguard guarded a pregnant lady in a tower. Aerys died while these 3 kingsguard guarded a pregnant lady in a tower Aegon died while these 3 kingsguard guarded a pregnant lady in a tower Jamie turned to Meryn Trant. "Ser you have been remiss in teaching our new brothers their duties." "What duties," said Meryn Trant defensively. "Keeping the king alive. How many monarchs have you lost since I left the city? Two, is it!" aSoS BG page 274 “When King's Landing fell, Ser Jaime slew your king with a golden sword, and I wondered where you were.”--Ned aGoT page 410 "Ser you have been remiss in teaching our new brothers their duties." “Far away,” Ser Gerold said, --aGoT page 410 "What duties," "Keeping the king alive. How many monarchs have you lost since I left the city? Two, is it!" “or Aerys would yet sit the Iron Throne, and our false brother would burn in seven hells.”--aGoT page 410 Killing the king's enemies... KG Darry and Martell died as KG doing exactly that while their king was hundreds of miles away... Ned was absolutely Visery's enemy and Jon's uncle--- fighting him was absolutely guarding Viserys... possibly guarding Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj4iy Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 Jon Snow is Lord of House Snow. Also being a bastard has helped him survive this long. ...not sure if serious? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearQueen87 Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 I have not read the R+L=J threads in a long time so please forgive me if this has been said a hundred times for i have not heard it yet. In ADWD page 418 Melisandre is telling Jon if the hook ie hump i take it lol : " The Lord of Light in his wisdom made us male and female, two parts of a greater whole. In our joining there is power. Power tomake life. Power to make light. Power to cast shadows." She then goes on to talk about how he casts a very large shadow the size of the Wall which i am starting to believe is also a hidden meaning for Targaryen bastards or Kings. Does she believe here that she is Fire and he is Ice ? She obviously knows he has Kings blood rather it is the Stark in him or the Targ i do not know but she want's to mate with him and make shadow babies. the fact that she has not wanted to do this with Stannis again makes me think she knows for sure Jon is AA. So is this proof he has Targ King blood ? or is it just that he is the King of the North ? or just that he has King of the North blood ? IIRC, Mel doesn't want to make shadow babies with Stannis again because Stannis is too weak to do it again. Mel might recognize that Jon has Stark KotN blood, but I dont think she knows he has Targ kings blood. Yay maths! indeed Jon Snow is Lord of House Snow. Also being a bastard has helped him survive this long. King Jon Snow, the first of his name. ;) The lessons he learned as a bastard will always be with him and help him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj4iy Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 Rhaegar died while these three kingsguard guarded a pregnant lady in a tower. While the King still had KG protecting him. Aerys died while these 3 kingsguard guarded a pregnant lady in a tower ...on the sword of the KG who was SUPPOSED to be guarding him. Killing the king's enemies... KG Darry and Martell died as KG doing exactly that while their king was hundreds of miles away... Ned was absolutely Visery's enemy and Jon's uncle--- fighting him was absolutely guarding Viserys... possibly guarding Jon. Ned offered them the opportunity to go to Viserys. I don't see how 'fighting Ned' is guarding Viserys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stateofdissipation Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 Add in: the KG at the TOJ are very proudly proclaiming that We! Are! KG! They think they are doing their sworn duty: protect the king! ETA: we've jumped 8 pages in like 7 hours...lol. Only the kingsguard do not. proudly proclaiming that We! Are! KG! or have a viewpoint chapter to show They think they are doing their sworn duty: or mention duty at all or mention protect the king! If you add in what you would like the kingsguard to have said.... why not just add--We are guarding Rhaegar's trueborn son-- It is not in the text either... but it does get to the desired end honestly and more quickly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearQueen87 Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 Only the kingsguard do not. proudly proclaiming that We! Are! KG! or have a viewpoint chapter to show They think they are doing their sworn duty: or mention duty at all or mention protect the king! If you add in what you would like the kingsguard to have said.... why not just add--We are guarding Rhaegar's trueborn son-- It is not in the text either... but it does get to the desired end honestly and more quickly "The KG do not flee." Sounds pretty proudly proclaiming that they are KG to me. Fairly certain that the prime duty of the KG is protect the King. Sorry if you disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Leftwich Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 the Tyrells didn't seem to know about the sack, but somehow the 3 KG at a random tower found out? If knowledge of their whereabouts were that widely known, then Robert would've sent the army there for Lyanna. So who got the raven out or who got out and rode not for the Tyrells but the ToJ? Just because the Tyrell's were still laying siege to SE does not mean that they did not know about the Sack of KL. Look at the Blackwood's in ADwD, they are still holding out, even though they know Robb is dead. Bending the knee is no small thing for these great lords. It would be one thing to hear news, another for Ned Stark to show up with an army and have them bend the knee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
son jnow Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 ...not sure if serious? This is a serious discussion. Was there not an episode entitled "Lord Snow" which explained this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj4iy Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 This is a serious discussion. Was there not an episode entitled "Lord Snow" which explained this? You said "it's kept him alive this far!" I thought you might be joking because, well, it may not have kept him alive for very long XD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
son jnow Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 IIRC, Mel doesn't want to make shadow babies with Stannis again because Stannis is too weak to do it again. Mel might recognize that Jon has Stark KotN blood, but I dont think she knows he has Targ kings blood. indeed King Jon Snow, the first of his name. ;) The lessons he learned as a bastard will always be with him and help him. Being of low birth, Lord Snow is the Littlefinger of the Wall. Nobody suspects he is dangerous but they continue playing the game of thrones better than others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stateofdissipation Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 ...I'm not doing math. It's completely unnecessary for this conversation. It's about as obvious as it can be that the KG knew what happened. The way they react to everything is proof enough. ...I'm not doing math. same thing no math,,, 1. The rebel losers of a battle on the Trident do not get to keep going further into royalist territory. 2. The red mountains of Dorne are further in royalist territory than the Trident Rebels in the red mountains of Dorne mean rebels won the battle on the Trident. It's about as obvious as it can be that the KG knew what happened. The way they react to everything is proof enough. Is that an admission that rebels in the red mountains of Dorne meant that they had won on the Trident and an attempt to switch from specific proof to a general feeling? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearQueen87 Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 Being of low birth, Lord Snow is the Littlefinger of the Wall. Nobody suspects he is dangerous but they continue playing the game of thrones better than others. I think this is the first time that I've seen Jon compared to Littlefinger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj4iy Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 ...I'm not doing math. same thing no math,,, 1. The rebel losers of a battle on the Trident do not get to keep going further into royalist territory. 2. The red mountains of Dorne are further in royalist territory than the Trident Rebels in the red mountains of Dorne mean rebels won the battle on the Trident. It's about as obvious as it can be that the KG knew what happened. The way they react to everything is proof enough. Is that an admission that rebels in the red mountains of Dorne meant that they had won on the Trident and an attempt to switch from specific proof to a general feeling? No, it's a common sense statement that if a pregnant woman is up in a tower in the middle of nowhere, people are going to HAVE to come to that tower at some point. And those people would bring news. And the KG know what Ned is saying because they don't react at all to the news that their king has been slain by their fellow KG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
son jnow Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 I think this is the first time that I've seen Jon compared to Littlefinger. Is that a good thing or a bad thing? I'd like to think it is good because as we anticipate a possible twist in the story that GRRM may make: an unexpected Lord Snow-Littlefinger alliance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearQueen87 Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 Is that a good thing or a bad thing? I'd like to think it is good because as we anticipate a possible twist in the story that GRRM may make: an unexpected Lord Snow-Littlefinger alliance. Suppose good or bad depends on how you feel about both parties. :) Can you explain why you think a Jon-Littlefinger alliance might come about or what both parties get from it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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