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Sir Bronn

How good was the water dance?

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Could the water dance be as good as the westerosi way of fighting

If we take an average water dancer and westerosi Knight who has the advantage?

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The Knight would win every time.

I would imagine water dancers using light armor and light weight sword that would be difficult to pierce through the armor of a Knight, who are trained in the art of war, IMO the Knight wins, just ask Syrio about the advantage of wearing armor and using a great sword...

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Different questions need to be asked here. Knights are/were primarily heavy cavalry, whereas the water dancer appears to primarily fought on foot. On forces that were armed in a non knightly fashion (the Red Cloaks) Syrio did remarkable, so In guess an argument can be made that it strictly a discipline for infantry. So if the two were likely to be fighting then the "dancer" would probably be served better to run or try to tackle the guy in his heavy plate.


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Knights were perfectly capable of fighting on foot. In fact, that was more common than mounted combat, particularly as the medieval period progressed.



As for the waterdancer vs. knight, it's knight 100%, every time without fail.



It's a bit unfair, though, to compare someone geared up for war with someone basically faffing about town while armed.



It'd be like saying, who would win in a "duel" between a soldier in full combat gear with his combat rifle and some sport hunter with a shotgun and a bright orange vest.


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There is no such thing as a "smallsword".

Hah I was wondering about that smallsword comment. As for the OP its definitely not a fair fight so the knight wins consistently. Syrio himself knew the truth of that, telling Arya to run child and such.

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What?

Ah. You are referring to the dress sword, I presume. My bad. It's a bit outside my field, being as it is an 18th century phenomenon.

I don't see what relations it bears to anything in Westeros, though.

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Water dancing seems to be fighting style strictly intended for one-on-one duels and against opponents who use neither shield nor armor. So by that virtue alone it would be hard to prevail against any armored opponent, though individual skill matters of course.


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Ah. You are referring to the dress sword, I presume. My bad. It's a bit outside my field, being as it is an 18th century phenomenon.

I don't see what relations it bears to anything in Westeros, though.

17/18th, but more generally regarded as the final destination of the evolution away from swords which accounted for armour.

So, re: Westeros, my meaning was that without gunpowder to make armour pointless, warriors will still wear it and therefore there is no inherent advantage in using swords which don't account for it, hence any stylistic or aesthetic advantages people assume due to smaller sword = later period = advancement are illusory.

But it's a commonly held misapprehension, that later lighter swords were somehow the result of improved craftsmanship or science.

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Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Syrio defeat 2 or 3 knights in armor using swords with only a wooden sword? Trant was fully armored & Syrio's stick was broken also IIRC. So how can we say knights win?

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I think everyone's forgetting Bronn's fight to save Tyrion. Quickness and mobility can be used to advantage, even to win against a man in armor. Syrio lost a great part of that advantage because (a) he had a practice sword; and (b) he had to prevent any pursuit of Arya so couldn't move as much as he might have wanted.


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The Knight would win every time.

I would imagine water dancers using light armor and light weight sword that would be difficult to pierce through the armor of a Knight, who are trained in the art of war, IMO the Knight wins, just ask Syrio about the advantage of wearing armor and using a great sword...

What about bronn and ser vardis? Bronn was in light armor and fucked vardis up, granted he is not a water dancer but your point is moot.

Sometimes the knights would win, sometimes the water dancers would win, speed doesn't beat strength 100% of the time nor does strength beat speed 100% of the time.

The winner in a fight between two equals is the man who gets lucky.

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Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Syrio defeat 2 or 3 knights in armor using swords with only a wooden sword? Trant was fully armored & Syrio's stick was broken also IIRC. So how can we say knights win?

You're wrong: Syrio defeated 5 goons in piecemeal armor. GRRM was exceedingly detailed in describing just how their crap armor had weak points. And equally detailed in describing how Trant's armour had none of the same.

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What about bronn and ser vardis? Bronn was in light armor and fucked vardis up, granted he is not a water dancer but your point is moot.

Deus ex Machina. Egen's sword broke + he had a statue fall on him.

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Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Syrio defeat 2 or 3 knights in armor using swords with only a wooden sword? Trant was fully armored & Syrio's stick was broken also IIRC. So how can we say knights win?

Trant was the only knight. The others were described as 'guardsmen', ie likely little different than the Gold Cloaks.

In that Syrio is among the best in the world at what he does, and also given the underestimation a smallish old fop would likely inspire in your typical guard-type, I'd assume he ought to make short work of the rest. My impression was that once it was Trant and once he took it seriously, the rest was fait accomplis. If he'd had steel, maybe his being amongst the best would come closer to bridging the gap with an apparent non-entity like Trant.

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Deus ex Machina. Egen's sword broke + he had a statue fall on him.

Haha that is not a dues ex machina, that was ser vardis being careless and bronn being more observant and faster on his toes. Ser vardis thought it was no contest, got cocky and careless with his blows, and died for it.

Rule one in a fight- treat every fight like it is your last, never underestimate anyone.

Rule 2- seem like less than you are ( to try and coax your enemy to commit rule #1).

Bronn did both of these, and won.

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