Moments of Foreshadowing 10

[Lost Melnibonean]

Daenerys will wed, or at least betroth, Aegon...

Drogo's braid was black as midnight and heavy with scented oil, hung with tiny bells that rang softly as he moved. It swung well past his belt, below even his buttocks, the end of it brushing against the back of his thighs.

"You see how long it is?" Viserys said. "When Dothraki are defeated in combat, they cut off their braids in disgrace, so the world will know their shame. Khal Drogo has never lost a fight. He is Aegon the Dragonlord come again, and you will be his queen."

Daenerys I, Game 3

[Lost Melnibonean]

Will Arya visit the Isle of Faces?

The air was full of birds, crows mostly. From afar, they were no larger than flies as they wheeled and flapped above the thatched roofs. To the east, Gods Eye was a sheet of sun-hammered blue that filled half the world. Some days, as they made their slow way up the muddy shore (Gendry wanted no part of any roads, and even Hot Pie and Lommy saw the sense in that), Arya felt as though the lake were calling her. She wanted to leap into those placid blue waters, to feel clean again, to swim and splash and bask in the sun. But she dare not take off her clothes where the others could see, not even to wash them. At the end of the day she would often sit on a rock and dangle her feet in the cool water. She had finally thrown away her cracked and rotted shoes. Walking barefoot was hard at first, but the blisters had finally broken, the cuts had healed, and her soles had turned to leather. The mud was nice between her toes, and she liked to feel the earth underfoot when she walked.

Arya V, Clash 19

[Avlonnic]

Posting this here from the General thread for discussion:

 

Reading Sansa's chapter at the Tourney of the Hand, we get this description of Ser Hugh's death that screams of foreshadowing / symbolism to me, but I couldn't find any threads on it:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The youth fell not ten feet from where Sansa was seated. The point of Ser Gregor's lance had snapped off in his neck, and his life's blood flowed out in slow pulses, each weaker than the one before. His armor was shiny new, a bright streak of fire ran down his outstretched arm, as the steel caught the light. Then the sun went behind a cloud, and it was gone. His cloak was blue, the color of the sky on a clear summer's day, trimmed with a border of crescent moons, but as his blood seeped into it, the cloth darkened and the moons turned red, one by one.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Varys later posits that Ser Hugh could have been the one to poison Jon Arryn, and I believe Pycelle mentions that he agrees. What I find odd is that it makes perfect sense if what we are lead to believe up until that point, that Jamie and Cersei are responsible, turns out to be true. Which of course it doesn't. A 'red handed' knight, made so by the sun (Jaime's face is often described as a sun) which then hides from view, leading to the blood stained moons that appear in the Arryn sigil. Ser Gregor of course, a Lannister man through and through. Unless GRRM changed his mind as to the perpetrator of Arryn's murder? Are there examples of foreshadowing Littlefinger & Lysa's involvement in aGoT?
 

 

 

I've seen a few suggestions here and there. The Moments of Foreshadowing threads are a good place to discuss foreshadowing. The Wow I Never Noticed That threads are good too.

Here we have 1) shiny new armor, 2) a bright streak of fire, 3) steel catching the light, 4) a cloud covering the sun--ending the fire, 5) a sky blue cloak turned red by blood, and 6) crescent moons turning red ine by one by blood.

Hmm...

 

I, too, remember the statement that this foreshadows Sansa's menarche and it seems reasonable.  There are many additional possible interpretations.

 

Plot-wise, we know that Ser Hugh was Jon Arryn's devoted squire for 4 years.  He was knighted by Robert after Arryn's death as a boon because he was so desperate to be knighted, not because he was ready to be a knight.  We learn that Ser Hugh has a mother in the Vale, his shiny new armor is not paid for, and that Ned agrees to pay for the armor and ship it to Hugh's mother (which Barristan considers a little extravagant but gallant.)  I would not be surprised if the shiny armor and/or Hugh's mother shows up in a future Sansa chapter.

 

The shiny armor could represent the innocence of both Hugh and Sansa at that point in time.  It is the first tournament for Sansa and the first in which Hugh is competing as a knight.  His outstretched arm could represent how desperately he was reaching for knighthood and glory...but the sun went behind a cloud and the fire died.

 

"His cloak was blue, the color of the sky on a clear summer's day, trimmed with a border of crescent moons" - this could be representative of the Vale with its blue skies and crescent moon imagery (Mountains of the Moon.)  But it can also represent that both Sansa (blue eyes) and Hugh are summer children full of fantasies...but their summer (or innocence) will face the sickle/crescent moon - Hugh dies from a neck wound and his blood ebbs out (somewhat similar to the ancient sacrifice Bran witnessed via weirnet) and Sansa's wide-eyed childhood is about to collide with KL's reality. 

 

"As his blood seeped into it (cloak), the cloth darkened and the moons turned red, one by one."  The blue skies will darken for Sansa and the Vale as war approaches. The moons will turn red, one by one.  Sansa will experience her moon's blood, one after another; also, the moons of the Vale (the houses) will bleed - and soon.  Cat will take Tyrion to the Eyrie and Ser Vardis Egen will die in the trial-by-combat.  Note: Egen's heraldry is blue and white with a crescent moon at the top - Hugh may have been a relative. 

 

A little more offbeat would be to note that Arryn's cloak is blue and white; cloaks are used in wedding ceremonies. Sansa will see Arryn's 'cloak become bloodied' when she sees Arryn's wife, Lysa, die.

 

~~ That's a start off the top of my head.  I am confident others will respond here.

[Lost Melnibonean]

I like this part...

The shiny armor could represent the innocence of both Hugh and Sansa at that point in time.  It is the first tournament for Sansa and the first in which Hugh is competing as a knight.  His outstretched arm could represent how desperately he was reaching for knighthood and glory...but the sun went behind a cloud and the fire died.

I'd leave out the bit about Sansa though. That would make the first part imagery rather than foreshadowing.

I think the crescent moons turning red one by one is a foreshadowing of Tyrion's and Yohn's turning houses of Mountain and Vale away from Petyr and Harry in favor of Timett the red hand and Daenerys the red dragon.

[DaveSumm]

It's the fire part that I'm drawn to, it's an unusual word to use if you're talking about reflected light. Of course, Thoros and his burning sword are all over this chapter as well, but I can't think of a connection there. That's the only part that doesn't fit with my initial theory of it implicating Jaime. The description of his cloak could simply be to emphasise that these were Arryn colours that he was soaking in blood, and his armor being shiny is relevant to it being new (I'm not entirely clear if he actually hadn't paid for the armor, as Varys later emphasises this as well and seems to be implying that it may have been bought for him).

So for me, the fire is the most shoe-horned and out-of-place part of the whole paragraph. Also, it would be quite like GRRM to have Jaime and Cersei plotting to eventually poison Arryn, and just be beaten to the punch by Littlefinger.

[LmL]

The fire is there for astronomy - metaphor purposes. Hugh is playing the role of the moon which was destroyed - that's why the bloody sickle moons. The flashing of light symbolizes the moment of Lightbringer's forging, and the sun going behind the cloud as the moon's turned bloody alludes to the fall of the Long Night.

The same thing happens when Gregor (playing the role of moon in this case) fights Oberyn (and his sun-spear). The sun flashes off of armor at the moment of truth, then disappears and then someone dies.

That doesn't rule out any other additional implications, such as has been suggested by others. Astronomy metaphors are always doing double duty. But from my perspective, that's what is going on in that scene and that's why the flashing armor followed by bloody sickle moons. I actually was just looking at that scene yesterday. :)

[Lost Melnibonean]

The fire is there for astronomy - metaphor purposes. Hugh is playing the role of the moon which was destroyed - that's why the bloody sickle moons. The flashing of light symbolizes the moment of Lightbringer's forging, and the sun going behind the cloud as the moon's turned bloody alludes to the fall of the Long Night.

The same thing happens when Gregor (playing the role of moon in this case) fights Oberyn (and his sun-spear). The sun flashes off of armor at the moment of truth, then disappears and then someone dies.

That doesn't rule out any other additional implications, such as has been suggested by others. Astronomy metaphors are always doing double duty. But from my perspective, that's what is going on in that scene and that's why the flashing armor followed by bloody sickle moons. I actually was just looking at that scene yesterday. :)

You should link your theories so others can see where you're coming from.

[DaveSumm]

Ahhhhhhh........

"Leave us," she told them. "I wish to speak to my sister alone." She held Catelyn's hand as they withdrew ...
... and dropped it the instant the door closed. Catelyn's saw her face change. It was as if the sun had gone behind a cloud.

:)

[LmL]

You should link your theories so others can see where you're coming from.

 

Is that a jest? Are you poking fun at my signature, ser? I've had people complain about leaving links in posts when I have them in my signature. ;)

 

Anyway, yes, if anyone is interested in just what the hell I am talking about, the first link in my signature is the place to start, although I don't get to ser Hugh and his bloody moons until a couple of essays in.  Either they will hold your interest, dear reader, and you will make it there, or not, as it happens.  My theories are long, but I don't apologize for that - I just try to make them readable. It's all very heavy text-interpretation, so there a lot of text quotes. Anyways..

 

The Mythical Astronomy of Ice and Fire. 

[Lost Melnibonean]

Ahhhhhhh........

:)

So, it's foreshadowing Robert Arryn's death?

[Lost Melnibonean]

 
Is that a jest? Are you poking fun at my signature, ser? I've had people complain about leaving links in posts when I have them in my signature. ;)
 
Anyway, yes, if anyone is interested in just what the hell I am talking about, the first link in my signature is the place to start, although I don't get to ser Hugh and his bloody moons until a couple of essays in.  Either they will hold your interest, dear reader, and you will make it there, or not, as it happens.  My theories are long, but I don't apologize for that - I just try to make them readable. It's all very heavy text-interpretation, so there a lot of text quotes. Anyways..
 
The Mythical Astronomy of Ice and Fire. 

I use a phone. I can't see your signature.

[LmL]

Ah, well that's a good reminder and a reason to leave a link in the body of the comment. TY.

[DaveSumm]

So, it's foreshadowing Robert Arryn's death?

Well no, I take it as an early clue that Lysa killed Jon Arryn.

[Lost Melnibonean]

Well no, I take it as an early clue that Lysa killed Jon Arryn.

Impressive. Most impressive.

[Lost Melnibonean]

Theon chose plain boots and plainer clothes, somber shades of black and grey to fit his mood. No ornament; he had nothing bought with iron. I might have taken something off that wildling I killed to save Bran Stark, but he had nothing worth the taking. That's my cursed luck, I kill the poor.

Theon II, Clash 24

And, of course, Theon murders a miller's sons rather than the young princes.

[Blazfemur]

In accordance to whom I think the coveted "Corpse Queen" is, and in using the lore, that a Barrow King awarded his daughter to a King Stark after years of war.

 

I would use Lady Dustin's descent into the Winterfell crypts, with Theon, as a moment of foreshadowing (well, technically post-foreshadowing, as it hints to what may have occurred, aeons past). She explains she had a thing for a Brandon Stark (Eddard's brother), and things went awry. There's also a missing sword, and her disdain for the Stark family

 

I would connect this in some twisted way, to The Barrow King's daughter, theorized as a Lady Dustin, and Brandon The Breaker.

 

A Dustin, a Brandon Stark, and a missing sword (Ice)

[Lost Melnibonean]

The legend of Storms End foreshadows a romance between Aegon and Arianne, and a war between Aegon and Euron.

The songs said that Storm's End had been raised in ancient days by Durran, the first Storm King, who had won the love of the fair Elenei, daughter of the sea god and the goddess of the wind. On the night of their wedding, Elenei had yielded her maidenhood to a mortal's love and thus doomed herself to a mortal's death, and her grieving parents had unleashed their wrath and sent the winds and waters to batter down Durran's hold. His friends and brothers and wedding guests were crushed beneath collapsing walls or blown out to sea, but Elenei sheltered Durran within her arms so he took no harm, and when the dawn came at last he declared war upon the gods and vowed to rebuild.

Five more castles he built, each larger and stronger than the last, only to see them smashed asunder when the gale winds came howling up Shipbreaker Bay, driving great walls of water before them. His lords pleaded with him to build inland; his priests told him he must placate the gods by giving Elenei back to the sea; even his smallfolk begged him to relent. Durran would have none of it.

Catelyn III, Clash 31

Aegon will take the seat of the Storm King, and he will win the love of the fair and seductive Arianne, whom Doran has sent to investigate Aegons merit. Euron is the storm. Jon Connington, who believes Aegon must be free to wed Daenerys, will not be pleased with Ariannes wiles, and Aegon will join with Daenerys when she arrives in Westeros in the hour of Aegons peril just as Tyrion predicted, but he will still love Arianne. Aegon will then betray Daenerys for love of Arianne, and the dragons will dance.

[Isobel Harper]

The legend of Storms End foreshadows a romance between Aegon and Arianne, and a war between Aegon and Euron.

Catelyn III, Clash 31

Aegon will take the seat of the Storm King, and he will win the love of the fair and seductive Arianne, whom Doran has sent to investigate Aegons merit. Euron is the storm. Jon Connington, who believes Aegon must be free to wed Daenerys, will not be pleased with Ariannes wiles, and Aegon will join with Daenerys when she arrives in Westeros in the hour of Aegons peril just as Tyrion predicted, but he will still love Arianne. Aegon will then betray Daenerys for love of Arianne, and the dragons will dance.

 

Not sure I see the connection, personally. 

 

The story does remind me of Rhaegar and Lyanna in a way (stealing a daughter, results in a war), and I do expect a retelling of that in some way in the story.  (Not sure it will involve someone literally getting kidnapped like Lyanna though.)

 

"Stealing" wives is a bit of a theme in this world.  This story.  Rhaegar, Lyanna.  Bael the Bard-Stark.

[Isobel Harper]

People in the most recent didn't notice that thread didn't seem to agree with me, but some of the dead listed in the Riot of King's Landing seem reminiscent of Elia and her children, with a possible little foreshadow of the Pisswater Prince.

 

Ser Preston's corpse had been overlooked at first; the gold cloaks had been searching for a knight in white armor, and he had been stabbed and hacked so cruelly that he was red-brown from head to heel.
Ser Aron Santagar had been found in a gutter, his head a red pulp inside a crushed helm.
Lady Tanda's daughter had surrendered her maidenhood to half a hundred shouting men behind a tanner's shop. The gold cloaks had found her wandering naked on Sowbelly Row.

 

Ser Preston is stabbed cruelly to death, just like Rhaenys.

Aron Santagar's head is smashed in, like "Aegon's."

Lollys was raped, like Elia.  She was raped behind a tanner's shop; the "Pisswater Prince" was a tanner's son.  "Half a hundred" times is also commonly used to describe the assault on Rhaenys as well.

[sweetsunray]

Not sure if it was ever mentioned, but there is a moment in aCoK before Qhorin Halfhand arrives at the Fist, where Jon overhears Chett talking treason with several other brothers. He knows it's treasonous, but he dismisses it as just fear-talk and how he shouldn't betray his brothers to Jeor for fear-talk. Of course in the Prologue of aSoS we learn that Chett was not just talking fear, but intends to have Jeor, Samwell and several others killed. Because of the wight attack on the Fist, this foul plan of mutiny and desertion was never brought to light. Eventually Jeor Mormont does get murdered in another mutiny at Craster's, and instead of Chett releasing all the ravens without a message, Sam releases the ravens without a message. And at Craster's we are told his sons are coming. The main point is how Jon dismisses the possibility of treasonous talk being serious in aCoK, and how he ends up being stabbed with murderous intent by the end of aDwD. The question here too is whether wights and/or Others will follow in the wake of the mutinous attempt as they did twice before.