Moments of Foreshadowing 10

[bradmcd77]

There is something that Jon tells Arya when he gave her the Needle.. ˝Different roads sometimes lead to the same castle˝ Arya was heading to KL, so Jon might go there some day but by a different road..

Was this mentioned before? Sorry if it was

I think maybe the other way around? Arya comes to Castle Black.

[sj4iy]

for the reason he does not think he is fit for the job.

A true sword of fire, now, that would be a wonder to behold. Yet at such a cost . . . When he thought of Nissa Nissa, it was his own Marya he pictured, a good-natured plump woman with sagging breasts and a kindly smile, the best woman in the world. He tried to picture himself driving a sword through her, and shuddered. I am not made of the stuff of heroes, he decided. If that was the price of a magic sword, it was more than he cared to pay.

It is only a matter of time until the Freys/Boltons are destroyed and Rickon is installed to Winterfell. After that, Stannis will have the entire North at his back. From that moment on, I think Davos might come into the same realization level with Jon (i.e. the real danger is in the North, people have to be saved no matter what etc.) but Stannis might turn his eyes towards South because the IT might seem ripe to be taken. He will want to gather more support for his cause and Riverlands is the next logical target for him. He might also want to exploit a possible power vacuum at the Vale after the death of LF.

Believing you are bad for a job doesn't automatically make you the perfect candidate.

[Mithras]

Believing you are bad for a job doesn't automatically make you the perfect candidate.

The Davos I know is one of the best man for the job.

[Mithras]

The Dornish leader forked a stallion black as sin with a mane and tail the color of fire.

Is it me or the mount of Oberyn was a big freaking Blackfyre beast?

[Lost Melnibonean]

The Dornish leader forked a stallion black as sin with a mane and tail the color of fire.

Is it me or the mount of Oberyn was a big freaking Blackfyre beast?

And Dornish leader is riding the Blackfyre. Very nice!

[sj4iy]

The Davos I know is one of the best man for the job.

He's one of my favorite characters, but I disagree. He's a great advisor- that's his talent.

[Mithras]

He's one of my favorite characters, but I disagree. He's a great advisor- that's his talent.

You mean the guy who risked his own neck in order to save Edric? BTW, the AAR in my mind is at the same time a great advisor to the real hero, i.e the Lightbringer.

[sj4iy]

You mean the guy who risked his own neck in order to save Edric? BTW, the AAR in my mind is at the same time a great advisor to the real hero, i.e the Lightbringer.

Eh, we're so far apart on this I don't think there will be any meeting of the minds, as it were. I don't think that is the role of AAR at all, nor do I think that is the role of LB. It's very clear to me that Davos will never pull Jon out of a fire. Nor do I think Davos is the type of man who could do what he had to do to win an all-or-nothing war...he's proven that by releasing Edric.

My personal belief is that LB is an actual sword, and that Jon is AAR-TPTWP. Dany is TSTMTW, and Stannis will die before the end. I hope a Davos ends up with a good ending, and I believe he will be invaluable fighting the Others on the sea, but other than that, I don't think he is important enough to put in such a position. Nor would Davos.

[J. Stargaryen]

He's one of my favorite characters, but I disagree. He's a great advisor- that's his talent.

You mean the guy who risked his own neck in order to save Edric? BTW, the AAR in my mind is at the same time a great advisor to the real hero, i.e the Lightbringer.

Eh, we're so far apart on this I don't think there will be any meeting of the minds, as it were. I don't think that is the role of AAR at all, nor do I think that is the role of LB. It's very clear to me that Davos will never pull Jon out of a fire. Nor do I think Davos is the type of man who could do what he had to do to win an all-or-nothing war...he's proven that by releasing Edric.

My personal belief is that LB is an actual sword, and that Jon is AAR-TPTWP. Dany is TSTMTW, and Stannis will die before the end. I hope a Davos ends up with a good ending, and I believe he will be invaluable fighting the Others on the sea, but other than that, I don't think he is important enough to put in such a position. Nor would Davos.

One parallel that arises from Schmendrick's R+L=J theory, is that of AA "grasping" and "wielding" LB, with the position of Hand of the King and the king himself. After all, you need a hand to grasp and wield a sword. And Jon is probably the true king, according to the Targaryen succession laws, as well as a "sword" according to the R+L=LB theory. So maybe, sword = king.

When you think about it, "Hand of the King" is a curious name for that office to begin with. It wouldn't surprise me if it has some greater symbolic meaning.

[sj4iy]

One parallel that arises from Schmendrick's R+L=J theory, is that of AA "grasping" and "wielding" LB, with the position of Hand of the King and the king himself. After all, you need a hand to grasp and wield a sword. And Jon is probably the true king, according to the Targaryen succession laws, as well as a "sword" according to the R+L=LB theory. So maybe, sword = king.

When you think about it, "Hand of the King" is a curious name for that office to begin with. It wouldn't surprise me if it has some greater symbolic meaning.

If anyone is Jon's Hand of the King, it's Sam, not Davos. Davos is too devoted to Stannis to ever be Jon's Hand.

[J. Stargaryen]

If anyone is Jon's Hand of the King, it's Sam, not Davos. Davos is too devoted to Stannis to ever be Jon's Hand.

Things could change. Especially if Stannis dies. But rather than argue specifically about Davos here, the point I wanted to get across was the potential parallel between AA "grasping" and "wielding" LB, with the HotK and king. If Jon is LB, then it seems plausible to me that his Hand, if he has one, could be AAr.

[sj4iy]

Things could change. Especially if Stannis dies. But rather than argue specifically about Davos here, the point I wanted to get across was the potential parallel between AA "grasping" and "wielding" LB, with the HotK and king. If Jon is LB, then it seems plausible to me that his Hand, if he has one, could be AAr.

But AAR has absolutely nothing at all to do with the kingship of Westeros. I don't think we should be convoluting the two. AAR is only about the person who will fight the Others. That's it. The prophecy doesn't care about political titles...it just cares that someone will defeat the 'darkness'.

In any case, I think TPTWP is AAR. That means the ONLY people I think could be AAR are Dany, Jon or (if he's real) Aegon. Those are the only people we know who are from the line of Aerys and Rhaella.

To me, Davos is a great secondary character, but I've seen nothing at all in the text that would lead me to the conclusion that Martin will propel him into a position of ultimate leadership. But the biggest knock against this Davos-Jon theory is the simple fact that neither have met each other in the books. We don't even know if they ever will.

In any case, I think LB is most likely an actual sword. I could believe that it is a dragon and maybe even the Watch, but I can't possibly see Lightbringer being a human being. I don't see anything at all in the prophecy that would indicate to me that it's a metaphor for a human wielding a human. It makes no sense.

[J. Stargaryen]

But AAR has absolutely nothing at all to do with the kingship of Westeros. I don't think we should be convoluting the two. AAR is only about the person who will fight the Others. That's it. The prophecy doesn't care about political titles...it just cares that someone will defeat the 'darkness'.

<snip>

In any case, I think LB is most likely an actual sword. I could believe that it is a dragon and maybe even the Watch, but I can't possibly see Lightbringer being a human being. I don't see anything at all in the prophecy that would indicate to me that it's a metaphor for a human wielding a human. It makes no sense.

1) Not literally, but so? It could simply be a clue hinting at the relationship between AAr and LB.

2) The Watch is made up of human beings.

3) Maybe not to you, but there are plenty of us who disagree. If you haven't already, I strongly recommend reading R+L=Lightbringer by Schmendrick.

[LordToo-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse]

But AAR has absolutely nothing at all to do with the kingship of Westeros. I don't think we should be convoluting the two. AAR is only about the person who will fight the Others. That's it. The prophecy doesn't care about political titles...it just cares that someone will defeat the 'darkness'.

In any case, I think TPTWP is AAR. That means the ONLY people I think could be AAR are Dany, Jon or (if he's real) Aegon. Those are the only people we know who are from the line of Aerys and Rhaella.

To me, Davos is a great secondary character, but I've seen nothing at all in the text that would lead me to the conclusion that Martin will propel him into a position of ultimate leadership. But the biggest knock against this Davos-Jon theory is the simple fact that neither have met each other in the books. We don't even know if they ever will.

In any case, I think LB is most likely an actual sword. I could believe that it is a dragon and maybe even the Watch, but I can't possibly see Lightbringer being a human being. I don't see anything at all in the prophecy that would indicate to me that it's a metaphor for a human wielding a human. It makes no sense.

Price that was promised..

[SacredOrderOfGreenMen]

"I have a son, you have a daughter. We'll join our houses."

Best.

[Mithras]

AAR is only about the person who will fight the Others.

This is not necessarily true. The tasks attributed to AAR are described incredibly vague.

[sj4iy]

1) Not literally, but so? It could simply be a clue hinting at the relationship between AAr and LB.

I think the relationship is person:weapon. I don't think it's person:person. It becomes way, WAY too metaphorical to be believable.

2) The Watch is made up of human beings.

The Watch is an organization- an army. IE: A weapon.

3) Maybe not to you, but there are plenty of us who disagree. If you haven't already, I strongly recommend reading R+L=Lightbringer by Schmendrick.

Feel free to believe it, I never said you couldn't. I've read that thread before, and nothing has convinced me that Lightbringer is Jon. I believe it will be a sword. I believe it will be a sword because Aemon, Melisandre, Saan, and Thoros have all spoken of an actual sword and seem to be expecting an actual sword. So to me, it's a sword until proven otherwise. I can see it being a metaphor for a dragon, and if you stretch it I might even say the Night's Watch could work (but I'm not holding my breath on that one), but I can't see it being a metaphor for a person. I don't see how someone could 'use' Jon to vanquish the darkness. Jon's a leader, he's not a follower. He may take advice, but he's the one making the decisions. If there's to be a war, I don't see him in any position that isn't a leadership position. Same with Dany.

[J. Stargaryen]

I think the relationship is person:weapon. I don't think it's person:person. It becomes way, WAY too metaphorical to be believable

Right, because people never work together.

The Watch is an organization- an army. IE: A weapon.

Made up of human beings.

Feel free to believe it, I never said you couldn't. I've read that thread before, and nothing has convinced me that Lightbringer is Jon. I believe it will be a sword. I believe it will be a sword because Aemon, Melisandre, Saan, and Thoros have all spoken of an actual sword and seem to be expecting an actual sword. So to me, it's a sword until proven otherwise. I can see it being a metaphor for a dragon, and if you stretch it I might even say the Night's Watch could work (but I'm not holding my breath on that one), but I can't see it being a metaphor for a person. I don't see how someone could 'use' Jon to vanquish the darkness. Jon's a leader, he's not a follower. He may take advice, but he's the one making the decisions. If there's to be a war, I don't see him in any position that isn't a leadership position. Same with Dany.

1) Could you see it as a metaphor for a dragon that was warged by Jon?

2) Nobody is saying otherwise. Also, Jon could "vanquish the darkness" by winning the war.

[sj4iy]

Right, because people never work together.

Made up of human beings.

1) Could you see it as a metaphor for a dragon that was warged by Jon?

2) Nobody is saying otherwise. Also, Jon could "vanquish the darkness" by winning the war.

I've already stated my reasons. You've already stated yours. I'm not convinced as of this point- sorry, it is what it is. I find it too crackpot to give it much credence, but feel free to think what you want to. My own personal thoughts are that Lightbringer is a sword or a dragon most likely, the Night's Watch much less likely. To me, there's nothing in the prophecies or the histories concerning Lightbringer that would ever hint at it being a particular person...especially when that particular person is already very likely AAR.

[J. Stargaryen]

I've already stated my reasons. You've already stated yours. I'm not convinced as of this point- sorry, it is what it is. I find it too crackpot to give it much credence, but feel free to think what you want to. My own personal thoughts are that Lightbringer is a sword or a dragon most likely, the Night's Watch much less likely. To me, there's nothing in the prophecies or the histories concerning Lightbringer that would ever hint at it being a particular person...especially when that particular person is already very likely AAR.

The only thing I was trying to convince you of, is that some of your objections were based on incorrect assumptions, or a lack of understanding regarding the theory and its underlying concepts. For example, I'm not sure if you're even aware that Schmendrick's theory basically fits within parameters you've given in this discussion.