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Cavendish

Is Varys bad or good?

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Varys want 's the line of Alicent Hightower back on the Iron throne, because the Hightowers are the most intelligent and capable House in Westeros.



Compare Oldtown to the shithole King's Landing.



Varys=Larys was a hardcore supporter of House Hightower and Aegon II



In other words: Lary's sacred blood oath is still active and House Hightower, Strong (=Mopatis, GC), Cole(=Kettleblack, GC). Peake(=Golden Company) and Redwyne(=Denys R./Rolly Duckfield) are back to full fill the oath.



That's why Varys wanted Tyrion to join Aegon = House Lannister was fighting and bleeding for Aegon II


(Varys Plan B is Tyrek Lannister)



Varys really belives that Aegon will light Westeros the way into a better future.

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He doesn't want peace by itself, he wants peace on his terms, under Aegon.

If he really wanted peace then he would have let Kevan fix Cersei's mess instead of making things worse

Yes, I think this is a valid point. He's still playing politics, and killing to get his own way. The ends don't always justify the means.

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He is straight up bad. He has actively worked to destabilize the realm and work against all sides but his own and Illyrio's. The epilogue of aDwD should make this clear. (No, he's not a Targaryen loyalist.) He killed Kevan so that Cersei's fuck ups would go on. And even though Kevan is a lickspittle drone of Tywin, he definitley would have been a good chance at improvement. He knows how to compromise and work with others. Varys killed him so the realm would stay in chaos.



Varys is a bit less evil than LF in that we don't see him for sure killing off his enemies, but he is not good from anyone's perspective but his own. And if you support his perspective, that's great. Fine and dandy. Just don't make him an agent of peace when he's part of the reason the realm is bleeding.


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Something GRRM said really made me think about Varys....and that was when he was asked "who do you think the most misunderstood characters of the series are?" And his reply was "Oh, probably Melisandre and Varys."

Are you referring to this interview?

He does refer to Varys and Mel as misunderstood, but he thinks it is because they are not POV characters, although in the last book Mel had a chapter.

In regards to Mel, I agree, since before I read her chapter, I thought that she was simply after power and I was not convinced that she was a true believer. It turns out that she really believes in her God and that she trully thinks of Stannis as AA.

But Varys is different.

Why is it always the innocents who suffer most, when you high lords play your game of thrones?

Is that so? Varys suddenly cares for the innocent? If the Pisswater Prince actually existed, then he was innocent but still Varys had him killed in order to protect Aegon. If on the other hand, Aegon is fake, this means that the baby that Gregor killed was trully Rhaegar's son and in that case, an innocent baby was killed in order for Varys to plan the return of the Blackfyres.

Why, the realm, my good lord, how ever could you doubt that? I swear it by my lost manhood. I serve the realm, and the realm needs peace

That seems to be accurate, until of course this happens

There are many like you, good men in service to bad causes … but you were threatening to undo all the queen' s good work, to reconcile Highgarden and Casterly Rock, bind the Faith to your little king, unite the Seven Kingdoms under Tommen's rule.

So even though Kevan tried hard and eventually managed to reconcile the Tyrrels and the Lannister and create circumstances that would strengthen Tommen's rule, Varys kills him, in order to prevent Tommen from being a king and replace him with Aegon.

I thought the crossbow fitting. You shared so much with Lord Tywin, why not that? Your niece will think the Tyrells had you murdered, mayhaps with the connivance of the Imp. The Tyrells will suspect her. Someone somewhere will find a way to blame the Dornishmen. Doubt, division, and mistrust will eat the very ground beneath your boy king, whilst Aegon raises his banner above Storm's End and the lords of the realm gather round him.

Seems to me he cares little for the innocent and the children that will suffer in the new war that will erupt between Lannisters, Tyrells, Martells and Aegon.

GRRM has also said that

My characters are not black or white, like the traditional fantasy cliché. I don’t have the typical white side, with very good people, and the bad side, composed by ugly and evil people who only wear black clothes. I’ve been always very impressed by Homer and his Iliad, especially the scene of the fight between Achilles and Hector. Who is the hero and who is the villain? That’s the power of the story and I wanted something similar to my books. The hero of one side is the villain of the other side.

I don't agree that Varys is anti-Lannister, I hardly think that he ever care for any of the Houses. Varys supports himself and he is simply using the nobles for his own intentions and purposes. Ned, Cersei, Tyrion and Barristan never really trusted him but eventually they became his pawns. The only person that resisted Varys was LF, but that's another topic.

Since I believe that Varys is a Blackfyre, his intentions can be considered good only if one supports the Blackfyres.

Otherwise he is just another grey character, like the rest of them.

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He is straight up bad. He has actively worked to destabilize the realm and work against all sides but his own and Illyrio's. The epilogue of aDwD should make this clear. (No, he's not a Targaryen loyalist.) He killed Kevan so that Cersei's fuck ups would go on. And even though Kevan is a lickspittle drone of Tywin, he definitley would have been a good chance at improvement. He knows how to compromise and work with others. Varys killed him so the realm would stay in chaos.

Varys is a bit less evil than LF in that we don't see him for sure killing off his enemies, but he is not good from anyone's perspective but his own. And if you support his perspective, that's great. Fine and dandy. Just don't make him an agent of peace when he's part of the reason the realm is bleeding.

Because he is clever enough to manipulate others to do his killings, e.g. Tyrion-Tywin.

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No character is predominantly bad or good. They all have good and bad traits and it's usually down to the perspective of a single person

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He's neither good nor bad.

This is illustrated in Tyrions trial, I believe. He doesn't exactly relish other ppls deaths but he's not too shy about offing ppl either. He does what he must and always has a mournful tone to boot.

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I don't believe Varys works for a greater good, nor for the realm, nor for the piece. I am a huge supporter of fAegon theory and if this thoery is true, Varys just wants to install his own king on a Throne, regardless of anything.


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He is straight up bad. He has actively worked to destabilize the realm and work against all sides but his own and Illyrio's. The epilogue of aDwD should make this clear. (No, he's not a Targaryen loyalist.) He killed Kevan so that Cersei's fuck ups would go on. And even though Kevan is a lickspittle drone of Tywin, he definitley would have been a good chance at improvement. He knows how to compromise and work with others. Varys killed him so the realm would stay in chaos.

Varys is a bit less evil than LF in that we don't see him for sure killing off his enemies, but he is not good from anyone's perspective but his own. And if you support his perspective, that's great. Fine and dandy. Just don't make him an agent of peace when he's part of the reason the realm is bleeding.

You are clearly anti-Targ!!!

He doesn't want peace by itself, he wants peace on his terms, under Aegon.

If he really wanted peace then he would have let Kevan fix Cersei's mess instead of making things worse

1Yes, that why he is a Targ loyalist. The lannisters got to go so Aegon can come in.

2 Aegon was prepared to be king for a long time. A lot of planning went into him, why cast all that aside for anybody else?

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Justin, I can't tell if that's sarcasm right now but I'm very pro-Targ. Its Varys who isn't. :P

You can't plan for 17 years to a Targaryen child on the throne, work behind enemy lines for that long and not be Loyal. I mean it is not like anyone is twisting his arm to be loyal to any targs, he could had them killed when they were babes. If you played game of throne Accent and look up the perks of being in house Targeryen it fits Varys perfectly.

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He's obviously evil. He's a traitor and a conspirator. He withholds info about the twincest from Ned and Bob even that's his only job.

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You can't plan for 17 years to a Targaryen child on the throne, work behind enemy lines for that long and not be Loyal. I mean it is not like anyone is twisting his arm to be loyal to any targs, he could had them killed when they were babes. If you played game of throne Accent and look up the perks of being in house Targeryen it fits Varys perfectly.

Having a Targaryen pretender isn't being loyal to the house. Its taking advantage of their reputation.

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To say that varys was a targ supporter is a bit vague. Let's not forget he was in charge of jorah Mormont spying on dany, and when Robert asked the small council what they think of dany and her babe dying, he says "we have no choice, sadly sadly...". He supports aegon and informs on dany. Whether he's a blackfyre or a separate branch of targ I don't know, but he's right about aegon being the most qualified and we'll trained. I don't know if you can call him evil, but he's definitely a shady character

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