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Cavendish

Is Varys bad or good?

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I read a recent idea by PrettyPig that suggested that Varys, the heir to the Blackfrier's, was given as payment to the Faceless Men in exchange for Summerhall... It's a pretty good theory in my opinion... Varys was serving with a troop of mummers (just like arya) when he he was sold to the sorcerer who removed his manhood.


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To say that varys was a targ supporter is a bit vague. Let's not forget he was in charge of jorah Mormont spying on dany, and when Robert asked the small council what they think of dany and her babe dying, he says "we have no choice, sadly sadly...". He supports aegon and informs on dany. Whether he's a blackfyre or a separate branch of targ I don't know, but he's right about aegon being the most qualified and we'll trained. I don't know if you can call him evil, but he's definitely a shady character

Of course he would want to keep informed of the targs movements and actions, he doesn't have a modern gps system he needs current data, What Robert does with any info his business.

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Suddenly I compared Varys and Aegon to Merlin and Arthur in TH White and began to weep with mirth...

:eek: I never thought of that story, but that makes perfect sense

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I guess if all depends on who you are supporting . I would like to see stannis get his hands on Varys and littlefinger lol . There is so much more to learn about Varys for me to call him bad or good but he is a great character. I wish he would have saved Ned stark though .i want to know more on summerhall an the tradegy on aegon 5 . When Jon's identity is revealed I wonder how Varys will react . if aegon is a blackfyre/ bright lame or Illyria is playing a different game on Varys what will happen . Can't wait for wow !!

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In my humble opinion, Varys strikes me as someone operating in the middle. While Varys isn’t exactly “good”, he isn’t considered “bad” either. Varys seems content in doing what’s best in the long run, regardless of the true intent behind his motives. Although, I have a strong feeling there is more going on than what he actually claims. Perhaps, it’s true that Varys does want what is best for the realm. Hopefully, it would be the case, as I like the character and tend to believe him.


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Something GRRM said really made me think about Varys....and that was when he was asked "who do you think the most misunderstood characters of the series are?" And his reply was "Oh, probably Melisandre and Varys."

Varys has pleaded that he is working for the realm since Ned was in the Black Cells. I really do think he is working with the mindset that his cause is the truly just one....to give a king to the realm that is worthy of sitting on the throne and that can actually empathize with the plights of his people.

Here's my thing with Varys; he serves the realm and wants peace, but has his own vision on how to successfully achieve long term peace. He seizes the opportunity to take the person with the strongest alternative claim to the Throne (be it the actual person, as I believe, or merely the identity of that person, as the Pisswater Prince theorists believe), mold that person into a King that the realm needs, and do everything in his power (morality be damned) to make sure that his candidate gets the Throne and keeps it long enough to rule the land in the manner as he has been taught.

Nice post. I've gotta go look up this interview now, I wanna hear how that was followed up. Very intriguing.

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Like all of the characters Varys seems to have elements of both. Also like many other characters he is working towards his own ends (which may very well be for a good purpose in the end). Someone said they thought he was a Targ supporter.... perhaps, but which Targ? The (f)Aegon he supports certainly uses the Targ name but we know that Dany is a true Targ for sure, and he no longer appears to be supporting her - indeed, he even councilled Robert to put a hit on her.



So who is on Varys' team? Illyrio for certain. Jorah formerly (when he stopped communications w/Varys he seemed to go to Dany's cause wholeheartedly). Jon Con and Faegon appear to be on his team - the murder of Kevan would seem to imply he's creating chaos to make their conquest easier. I also argue (in my separate thread I created) that Jaqen H'ghar is also working with Varys and Illyrio, as Varys often poses as a gaoler working beneath the Red Keep and gives Jaqen to Yoren to put him on his path for assasination.



Who is against Varys? Littlefinger (and allies) plays his own game, as does Cersei, Stannis, Melisandre, the Boltons, Dany, the Starks,the Greyjoys, and Tyrion.


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If you still find the need to define characters as "good" or "bad" after reading the books then I suggest you pick up another series.

:agree:

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I thought he was good since he wanted the peace of the realm. But then someone said he is like Littlefinger and even kills his children spies after they give him critical information he needs. Is this true?

No, he says he wants peace, but in AGOT he worked on starting a war and bringing Drogo's horde, in ADWD his machinations lead to another invasion and more chaos, so he's obviously a liar.

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No, he says he wants peace, but in AGOT he worked on starting a war and bringing Drogo's horde, in ADWD his machinations lead to another invasion and more chaos, so he's obviously a liar.

He is not so much a liar as he is an ideologue. He has seen the reigns of Aerys, Robert, Joffrey, and Tommen (Tywin/Cersei) be (in his opinion) complete failures which resulted in the destruction of the commoners. To Varys (if he IS to be belived at all), the rise of (f)Aegon is the only way to achieve peace because Aegon has been exposed to the plight of the common man.

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No, he says he wants peace, but in AGOT he worked on starting a war and bringing Drogo's horde, in ADWD his machinations lead to another invasion and more chaos, so he's obviously a liar.

He's talking long-term peace. Any peace under the current Westerosi leadership is doomed to be short. He wants to put someone on the throne who knows what he's doing, and in theory should have a long and healthy life in which to rule wisely and well.

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