Jump to content

Will Brienne play a big role in TWOW?


larastone

Recommended Posts

I consider Brienne to be one the most honourable characters in the entire series. Therefore GRRM will kill her in some horrific way.



Edit: I do think she will play a big role in the TWoW in that she will help find Sansa and/or Arya which will help restore the Stark dynasty in the North in some way. After that? Horrific death.


Link to comment
Share on other sites

So speaks a maid who has never played the game with anyone. Once you do youll take a different view. In the dark youd be as beautiful as any other woman. Your lips were made for kissing.

- Hyle Hunt to Brienne in AFFC

The last sentence may be foreshadowing Brienne receiving "the kiss of life" at some point...

I like it...

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/115959-the-power-of-beric-and-catelyn-comes-from-the-old-gods-not-the-lord-of-light-and-jaime-will-be-next/

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would say Arya is a more likely candidate to end LSH than Brienne, agreed. And I also believe that Jaime's story will take him back to KL, likely after he and Brienne have consummated their love. Jaime promises that he'll come back, but first he must deal with this sister. The tragic twist, IMO, is that Jaime and Cersei die together in KL as Cersei burns the city to the ground.

The weirwood dream shows Jaime and Brienne going in one direction and Cersei going in another. I don't think J&B will separate until one of them dies, and since Jaime's sword goes out first...

I also question Jaime ever meeting his siblings again. I know it's what everyone expects, but his weirwood dream has Jaime going to "his place" away from the Lannisters. Also, GRRM hasn't exactly been writing epic reunions either (Ned never got to return North).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The weirwood dream shows Jaime and Brienne going in one direction and Cersei going in another. I don't think J&B will separate until one of them dies, and since Jaime's sword goes out first...

I also question Jaime ever meeting his siblings again. I know it's what everyone expects, but his weirwood dream has Jaime going to "his place" away from the Lannisters. Also, GRRM hasn't exactly been writing epic reunions either (Ned never got to return North).

I took that to mean that Jaime chooses Brienne over Cersei, not that the twins never meet up again. Jaime's sword going out first could signal that he dies in KL while Brienne still lives, as per my scenario above.

The dream is peculiar though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I consider Brienne to be one the most honourable characters in the entire series. Therefore GRRM will kill her in some horrific way.

Nah. He's just going to chip away at her idealism and make her a much grayer character.

Also, GRRM disfigured Brienne. You don't disfigure a character and then kill them off a few chapters later. You disfigure them and explore how the disfigurement will affect their life.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I took that to mean that Jaime chooses Brienne over Cersei, not that the twins never meet up again. Jaime's sword going out first could signal that he dies in KL while Brienne still lives, as per my scenario above.

The dream is peculiar though.

Jaime never chose anyone in the dream. He and Brienne simply go in a seperate direction. It is stated very clearly that Jaime is going to his place (Brienne comes with) while the rest of the Lannisters go to their place (which is somewhere Jaime cannot follow).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I took that to mean that Jaime chooses Brienne over Cersei, not that the twins never meet up again. Jaime's sword going out first could signal that he dies in KL while Brienne still lives, as per my scenario above.

The dream is peculiar though.

imo the weirwood dream foreshadows Jaime's arc till the end of ASOS. It foreshadows Tywin and Joffrey's deaths, but not Cersei's because she's the one that has the light in her hand. The rest of the lannisters are dark shadows.

Your place.” The voice echoed; it was a hundred voices, a thousand, the voices of all the Lannisters since Lann the Clever, who’d lived at the dawn of days. But most of all it was his father’s voice, and beside Lord Tywin stood his sister, pale and beautiful, a torch burning in her hand. Joffrey was there as well, the son they’d made together, and behind them a dozen more dark shapes with golden hair.

the fact that Cersei has a torch burning in her hand is very important and marks her being alive in comparison to Joffrey and Tywin. I think Cersei leaving Jaime foreshadows the White Sword Tower scene in which they break up and she leaves his room angrily, it is after that scene that Jaime goes to Brienne and gives her Oathkeeper to go and rescue the Stark sisters because he no longer can since he's lost his hand.

and I believe this part of the dream greatly foreshadows the oathkeeper scene:

Five had been his brothers. Oswell Whent and Jon Darry. Lewyn Martell, a prince of Dorne. The White Bull, Gerold Hightower. Ser Arthur Dayne, Sword of the Morning. And beside them, crowned in mist and grief with his long hair streaming behind him, rode Rhaegar Targaryen, Prince of Dragonstone and rightful heir to the Iron Throne.

“You don’t frighten me,” he called, turning as they split to either side of him. He did not know which way to face. “I will fight you one by one or all together. But who is there for the wench to duel? She gets cross when you leave her out.”

“I swore an oath to keep him safe,” she said to Rhaegar’s shade. “I swore a holy oath.”

“We all swore oaths,” said Ser Arthur Dayne, so sadly.

The shades dismounted from their ghostly horses. When they drew their longswords, it made not a sound.

“He was going to burn the city,” Jaime said. “To leave Robert only ashes.”

“He was your king,” said Darry.

“You swore to keep him safe,” said Whent.

“And the children, them as well,” said Prince Lewyn.

Prince Rhaegar burned with a cold light, now white, now red, now dark. “I left my wife and children in your hands.”

“I never thought he’d hurt them.” Jaime’s sword was burning less brightly now. “I was with the king…

“Killing the king,” said Ser Arthur.

“Cutting his throat,” said Prince Lewyn.

“The king you had sworn to die for,” said the White Bull.

The fires that ran along the blade were guttering out, and Jaime remembered what Cersei had said. No. Terror closed a hand about his throat. Then his sword went dark, and only Brienne’s burned, as the ghosts came rushing in.

“No,” he said, “no, no, no. Nooooooooo!”

Jaime feels regret over his failure to honor his previous oaths, so therefore he gives Oathkeeper to Brienne to help him fulfill his oath to Catelyn.

I don't think the dream foreshadows anything after ASOS frankly.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

His flame went out but hers is still lit - so maybe part of him lives on in her after he dies? i.e. a child?

I've seen that theory before. A son, that way if Cersei, Jaime, and Tyrion all die, the Lannister "name" lives on (even if the babe was a bastard)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

imo the weirwood dream foreshadows Jaime's arc till the end of ASOS. It foreshadows Tywin and Joffrey's deaths, but not Cersei's because she's the one that has the light in her hand. The rest of the lannisters are dark shadows.

Cersei still goes to where all the Lannister's go. That could certainly be foreshadowing of her death.

the fact that Cersei has a torch burning in her hand is very important and marks her being alive in comparison to Joffrey and Tywin. I think Cersei leaving Jaime foreshadows the White Sword Tower scene in which they break up and she leaves his room angrily, it is after that scene that Jaime goes to Brienne and gives her Oathkeeper to go and rescue the Stark sisters because he no longer can since he's lost his hand.

The torch has a great deal of symbolism. At the beginning of the dream it is the only light in Jaime’s world. By the end of the dream Brienne’s sword is the only light.

I don't think the dream foreshadows anything after ASOS frankly.

I disagree. Weirwood dreams are actually very specific and almost literal in a sense. IMO, the dream has foreshadowed events that have yet to pass. They will come into play in the up coming books.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

His flame went out but hers is still lit - so maybe part of him lives on in her after he dies? i.e. a child?

I think it foreshadows the oathkeeper scene, Jaime can no longer fight well with his sword since he lost his hand so he gives his sword to Brienne to help him fulfill his oath.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think it foreshadows the oathkeeper scene, Jaime can no longer fight well with his sword since he lost his hand so he gives his sword to Brienne to help him fulfill his oath.

Weirwood dreams are much more literal than that. Brienne will be fighting for Jaime when his doom comes.

Here are other weirwood dreams (all from ASOS, Arya VIII):

"The old gods stir and will not let me sleep," she heard the woman say. "I dreamt I saw a shadow with a burning heart butchering a golden stag, aye."

(Stannis' shadow baby killing Renly)

"The wet one. The kraken king, m'lords.I dreamt him dead and he died, and the iron squids now turn on one another.

(Balon dying. Euron, Victarion, and Asha fighting for power.)

I dreamt of a maid at a feast, with purple serpents in her hair, venom dripping from their fangs.

(Sansa at Joff's wedding with her poison hairnet)

"a raging river and a woman that was a fish…dead with red tears on her cheeks, but when her eyes did open, I woke from terror.

(Lady Stoneheart)

“In the hall of kings, the goat sits alone and fevered as the great dog descends on him.”

(The hall of kings is Harrenhal. The goat is Vargo Hoat. He has a fever because Brienne bit off his ear. He is alone because all the Bloody mummers abandoned him. The great dog is the Mountain.)

They are not exactly metaphorical.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think the dream foreshadows anything after ASOS frankly.

If the dream was only meant to foreshadow events that took place in ASOS (and nothing afterwards), why did GRRM include lines such as these:

In this light she could almost be a beauty, he thought. In this light she could almost be a knight.

“Listen.” She put a hand on his shoulder, and he trembled at the sudden touch. She’s warm.

She was as tall and strong as he remembered, yet it seemed to Jaime that she had more of a woman’s shape now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The torch has a great deal of symbolism. At the beginning of the dream it is the only light in Jaime’s world. By the end of the dream Brienne’s sword is the only light.

And her "light" is the same as his - a flaming sword, while Cersei's was different. Might show how even though Cersei was his twin and he always thought "his other half", that he has more in common with Brienne. They are both warriors.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Weirwood dreams are much more literal than that. Brienne will be fighting for Jaime when his doom comes.

Here are other weirwood dreams (all from ASOS, Arya VIII):

"The old gods stir and will not let me sleep," she heard the woman say. "I dreamt I saw a shadow with a burning heart butchering a golden stag, aye."

(Stannis' shadow baby killing Renly)

"The wet one. The kraken king, m'lords.I dreamt him dead and he died, and the iron squids now turn on one another.

(Balon dying. Euron, Victarion, and Asha fighting for power.)

I dreamt of a maid at a feast, with purple serpents in her hair, venom dripping from their fangs.

(Sansa at Joff's wedding with her poison hairnet)

"a raging river and a woman that was a fish…dead with red tears on her cheeks, but when her eyes did open, I woke from terror.

(Lady Stoneheart)

“In the hall of kings, the goat sits alone and fevered as the great dog descends on him.”

(The hall of kings is Harrenhal. The goat is Vargo Hoat. He has a fever because Brienne bit off his ear. He is alone because all the Bloody mummers abandoned him. The great dog is the Mountain.)

They are not exactly metaphorical.

I promised myself I wouldn't reply to you but pretty much all of the above examples are prophecies from the Ghost of High Heart, who is supposed to be this woman who possesses some kind of magical/mystical powers. So it makes sense why the prophecies she sees are so literal, while Jaime who's just a normal person.......

considering the weirwood dream also has the ghosts of Jaime's KG brothers and Raeghar, I think its mean to be a metaphorical weirwood dream, but you'll obviously disagree rme

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And her "light" is the same as his - a flaming sword, while Cersei's was different. Might show how even though Cersei was his twin and he always thought "his other half", that he has more in common with Brienne. They are both warriors.

I agree that Jaime and Brienne have more in common than Jaime and Cersei (as counterintuitive as that sounds). Jaime and Brienne have the same interests and ideals (despite all of Jaime's cynicism). Jaime once shared Brienne's dream of being an honorable knight (and still does deep in his heart). Whereas Jaime and Cersei don't seem to understand each other very well. They have completely different interests and values.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

“The northman said, “She says that you must choose. Take the sword and slay the Kingslayer, or be hanged for a betrayer. The sword or the noose, she says. Choose, she says. Choose.”

Brienne may be able to get around it anyway because Lady Stoneheart wasn't too specific in her ultimatum... "slay the kingslayer" - well isn't Brienne herself considered "a kingslayer" too because people think she killed Renly...

I could see her slaying HERSELF instead - sacrificing herself to save Jaime.

By that line of reasoning--anyone suspected of kingslaying is automatically guilty--Cat herself qualifies.

That's if you accept Renly as a king.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If the dream was only meant to foreshadow events that took place in ASOS (and nothing afterwards), why did GRRM include lines such as these:

In this light she could almost be a beauty, he thought. In this light she could almost be a knight.

“Listen.” She put a hand on his shoulder, and he trembled at the sudden touch. She’s warm.

She was as tall and strong as he remembered, yet it seemed to Jaime that she had more of a woman’s shape now.

the lines show jaime's emotions of growing respect and attraction for brienne imo which does happen in ASOS.

its supposed to be a metaphorical dream imo, compared to ghost of high heart's prophecies. I mean in one of the ghost of high heart's prophecy, Renly's death is CLEARLY foreshadowed:

"I dreamt I saw a shadow with a burning heart butchering a golden stag, aye."

while Tywin and Joffrey's deaths aren't CLEARLY foreshdowed in Jaime's dream, unlike the Ghost of High Heart with Renly, Jaime doesn't dream of Joffrey getting poisoned by wine or Tywin getting shot by a crossbow. They're dark figures that leave him.....which is metaphorically foreshadowing their death and not literally the ghost of high heart's visions.

of course you won't agree so lets move on, i don't want to argue about this

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...