Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Elessar

Casually smashing a theory to pieces....

Recommended Posts

It smashes that particular argument to pieces, not the theory that he's a Targ descendant. But we already knew, even before TWOIAF was released, that the Targaryens were not the only people left in the world with Valyrian looks after the Doom.

I think some people, for some reason, were not clear on that fact (that non-Targs were around that had the Targ look and that it was fairly prevalent in certain parts of Essos)--WoIaF clarifies it for anyone who was previously confused.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This thread is about theories that have been smashed to pieces - as in, conclusively disproven - by TWOIAF. This passage doesn't prove or disprove anything regarding the heritage of Young Griff. It establishes that it is possible that YG is some random boy from Lys, but it doesn't come anywhere close to proving that he is.

Maybe im i missed something but as far as i know no one said the theory would be smashed in an obvious/conclusive way though, just casualy. This was the only part that struck me as casual, but like I said before i realy hope im wrong on the whole thing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe im i missed something but as far as i know no one said the theory would be smashed in an obvious/conclusive way though, just casualy. This was the only part that struck me as casual, but like I said before i realy hope im wrong on the whole thing.

My understanding is that this thread was opened in response to a comment that Ran (a co-author of WoIaF) made at a pre-release book reading in which he noted that a theory would be "casually smashed." What I believe he meant by that phrase was that the book would make an off-hand, i.e., casual, comment that would smash, i.e., conclusively disprove, a popular theory. After the book release Ran admitted the following (you can look up-thread to see where he makes these points as Ran posted on this thread after the release date to address what he had meant): (1) the theory he was referencing was A+J=C+J (no other--just that one); (2) the way in which he thought it was "casually smashed" was that the book states that Joanna left KL 3 years before the birth of the twins and seldom returned to KL thereafter; (3) he admitted that "seldom" is not never and thus the theory was not "smashed" quite as thoroughly as he first suggested; and (4) GRRM added fuel to the fire of A+J=T by including new information that could be clues in favor of A+J=T, including that Joanna was in KL in the year prior to Tyrion's birth and Aerys showed interest in her at that time.

Any other theories that people think were smashed, whether casually or in an obvious way, are welcome to be discussed on this thread, I suppose (not my role to control what is or is not discussed), but were not the subject of the original quote from Ran on which the title of the thread was based.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A+J=T just makes too much sense, especially with all of the disfigured babies Aerys was producing.

Potentially, Aerys may have raped Joanna just to troll Tywin's perfect life, and Barristan may be the one to tell Tyrion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think some people, for some reason, were not clear on that fact (that non-Targs were around that had the Targ look and that it was fairly prevalent in certain parts of Essos)--WoIaF clarifies it for anyone who was previously confused.

Yes woiaf makes it very clear that in many places, like Lys, there are thousands of Valyrian descendants, whom all have purple eyes and silver/white/gold hair. But that the Targaryens were the only Dragonlord Valyrian family to survive the doom. Therefore Targaryen blood is the only blood left on Planetos with the ability to ride dragons.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A+J=T just makes too much sense, especially with all of the disfigured babies Aerys was producing.

Potentially, Aerys may have raped Joanna just to troll Tywin's perfect life, and Barristan may be the one to tell Tyrion.

Aerys had multiple children who died young. Nowhere is it stated that these children were disfigured.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Aerys had multiple children who died young. Nowhere is it stated that these children were disfigured.

I think it does, don't have twoiaf on me. But certain that it says, "Rhaella had many stillbirths and miscarriages, some of them were deformed with tails and other abnormalities,"

Can someone check?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Miscarriages in 263 and 264 were followed by a stillborn daughter born in 267. Prince Daeron, born in 269, survived for only half a year. Then came another stillbirth in 270, another miscarriage in 271, and Prince Aegon, born two turns premature in 272, dead in 273"


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it does, don't have twoiaf on me. But certain that it says, "Rhaella had many stillbirths and miscarriages, some of them were deformed with tails and other abnormalities,"

Can someone check?

Just mentions stillborns and miscarriages, no abnormalities or deformities.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Miscarriages in 263 and 264 were followed by a stillborn daughter born in 267. Prince Daeron, born in 269, survived for only half a year. Then came another stillbirth in 270, another miscarriage in 271, and Prince Aegon, born two turns premature in 272, dead in 273"

Just mentions stillborns and miscarriages, no abnormalities or deformities.

I think there is more in another paragraph.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think there is more in another paragraph.....

I looked for other mentions as I have the book in front of me but I don't see anything that states that the babes were malformed or abnormal in the text. Doesn't mean they were or were not....it's just not stated.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I looked for other mentions as I have the book in front of me but I don't see anything that states that the babes were malformed or abnormal in the text. Doesn't mean they were or were not....it's just not stated.

Thanks for looking :)

I want to peruse again later, as I have seen several posters allude to the same thing I am saying, just can't remember where I read it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think some of Maegor's are described as deformed, but I don't recall that about any of Aerys II's. I think some people are just projecting that onto Aerys' based on their assumptions about Tyrion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think some of Maegor's are described as deformed, but I don't recall that about any of Aerys II's. I think some people are just projecting that onto Aerys' based on their assumptions about Tyrion.

Sigh...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think some of Maegor's are described as deformed, but I don't recall that about any of Aerys II's. I think some people are just projecting that onto Aerys' based on their assumptions about Tyrion.

OH Shit! lol you are right, it was MAegor I was thinking of, my bad. I knew I was getting from somewhere.......

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes woiaf makes it very clear that in many places, like Lys, there are thousands of Valyrian descendants, whom all have purple eyes and silver/white/gold hair. But that the Targaryens were the only Dragonlord Valyrian family to survive the doom. Therefore Targaryen blood is the only blood left on Planetos with the ability to ride dragons.

That doesn't follow.

The Targaryens were the only family in possession of dragons to survive the Doom, but that does not imply that they are the only ones capable of riding dragons. Given the history of Lys, most of its population is likely descended from bastards fathered by dragonlords, who would have the necessary blood but no access to dragons, and the dominant families are careful to keep their bloodlines as pure Valyrian as possible. I'd guess that dragonriding potential is very much in them. In fact, a fake Aegon from Lys might actually be a better dragonrider than Dany, because (as I calculated in another thread) Targaryen outbreeding led to her blood being just ~11.5% Valyrian, whereas a babe with the right colors from Lys could have a much higher concentration.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The percentage of dragonlord blood is irrelevant, imo. Having that "right drop" is what matters.

I think it is right that what is required is the "right drop" but the higher percentage Targ blood, wouldn't that increase the probability of getting the "right drop"?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×