arya_underfoot Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 I've never understood why people wouldn't want to vote. It's a pretty important requirement for our society to function. I get that it's unlikely your views are shared in entirety by any politician, but most people should understand that compromise is a part of life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gears of the Beast Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 I've never understood why people wouldn't want to vote. It's a pretty important requirement for our society to function. I get that it's unlikely your views are shared in entirety by any politician, but most people should understand that compromise is a part of life. It's not as if getting the apathetic people who don't give a fuck to vote is important for society to function - at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkhangel Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 Only if they genuinely don't give a fuck. Usually they do give some level of a fuck, however, and then you get a bunch of people bitching about the situation without doing anything to change it. That's annoying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gears of the Beast Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 Only if they genuinely don't give a fuck. Usually they do give some level of a fuck, however, and then you get a bunch of people bitching about the situation without doing anything to change it. That's annoying. We can stop pretending like voting is a way to 'do something about it', I would be pretty pissed off if I was bitching about something the gov't did and someone said 'well you don't get to complain, you didn't vote for the other team - our team'. What if I equally detest the other team for different reasons? Then how the fuck is voting a way to change anything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeor Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 I think it's less about the power of an individual vote, and more what it says about personal participation in the political system. Plenty of people complain about politicians and government etc, but I find that few of them are prepared to go into politics themselves, get involved at a grassroots level, write letters to their local member or even vote. While I wouldn't call myself a massive defender of politicians, I could see how it would be maddening if you have an electorate that thinks you're terrible but is so apathetic that it doesn't even get in contact to tell you what they think is wrong. I know people think letter writing and attending town hall-style forums is for old retired people, but I've done a couple of the former and always received a reply (and one of them certainly didn't seem formulaic). The first letter I wrote was about doing more to help asylum seekers to fulfil our international obligations (something my church feels very strongly about). However, the second letter that I wrote (and the one that I received a personalised reply to) was about defending private schools in some of the education funding reforms. I suspect a large proportion of this board would not share my views on that. By not engaging with the political system in some form or other, you're giving me a more powerful (and unchallenged) voice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Winged Shadow Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 ...compulsory voting doing its trick? Aye. I am mostly annoyed at myself because I forgot about it. I usually just pay to make them go away because I can't be bothered to write letters and all that. At least, as long as it's not a whopping great fine... That being said, there was one instance where I got a parking fine at the beach for $90 or so (the hourly metered rate was about $6/hour) so I decided to stay at the beach the entire day and night to get my money's worth! "Usually"? How often do you not vote? :P I think I will end up paying, mainly because I am lazy and paying up is easier than writing a letter and wondering whether it will get accepted and having it hang over my head. We can stop pretending like voting is a way to 'do something about it', I would be pretty pissed off if I was bitching about something the gov't did and someone said 'well you don't get to complain, you didn't vote for the other team - our team'. What if I equally detest the other team for different reasons? Then how the fuck is voting a way to change anything? Can you elaborate about why you think voting isn't a way to change things? Because from where I am standing, voting is a way something to do about it unless you think both party policies are the same and government changes doesn't change anything. Given the status of the current political state, it's pretty obvious that it is not the case. But there will always be some overlaps where both parties are relatively similar (ASIO surveillance issues, for example), and unless those overlapping areas are your voting issues, it's hard to see how voting is not changing things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeor Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 "Usually"? How often do you not vote? :P I should clarify, that referred to parking/speeding fines and other types of penalties! I have always voted... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brook Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 I DO think its important for the apathetic to vote. The alternative is to give a greater weight to the views of extremists who REALLY care about their issue and will mobilise to vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gears of the Beast Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 Can you elaborate about why you think voting isn't a way to change things? Because from where I am standing, voting is a way something to do about it unless you think both party policies are the same and government changes doesn't change anything. Given the status of the current political state, it's pretty obvious that it is not the case. But there will always be some overlaps where both parties are relatively similar (ASIO surveillance issues, for example), and unless those overlapping areas are your voting issues, it's hard to see how voting is not changing things. Well yes, collectively, voting does change things. I'm just responding to the idea that voting is some kind of panacea to fix your gripes with the system. I don't think I need to think both parties are the same to have the position that neither of them represent me, both are inadequate and I really don't give a fuck which one wins. I guess you guys don't understand teenage apathy just like I don't understand the left/right dichotomy that everyone seems to have bought into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gears of the Beast Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 I DO think its important for the apathetic to vote. The alternative is to give a greater weight to the views of extremists who REALLY care about their issue and will mobilise to vote. Aren't the apathetic ones who are going to be less informed and make their decisions on poor reasoning? Why would you want a bunch of uninformed people who don't care voting? Although, I will admit I find the notion that my apathetic vote can cancel out the vote of someone who really cares about the issues, is really informed, writes about asylum seekers on their blog etc etc quite appealing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gillio Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 My parents always claim to have voted one each for the major parties so as to "cancel each other out" :dunno: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gears of the Beast Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 My parents always claim to have voted one each for the major parties so as to "cancel each other out" :dunno: :lol: I find that legitimately touching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewJ Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 I'm 43 years of age. I have always voted and always wanted to have my say counted (though I never thought it would make much difference). In recent years, however... I've come to detest both major parties and the entire system. As I see it, our entire basis is government was built around electing local representatives for each area, who would get together and decided on policies for their nation. Each member of goverment is truly the voice of their electorate. But the reality is they simply vote however their party leaders instruct them to. And 80% of those ecisions aren't based on what's best for the nation, but what's best for their party. It's party first and nation a distant second. And my employer tranferred me to a new city in a new state a couple of years ago. I feel little to no connection to my current "home" - and don't have any familiarity with (or interest in) the representatives for my electorate. And the place I moved to is a labour stronghold and, as I understand it, they've held this seat for about the last 100 years. Whatever I do or don't do with my vote isn't going to change that. (And even if I managed to somehow cast the deciding vote that got liberal into this seat and it was the deciding seat to get liberal into power... all I've achived is to replace one party I detest with another I detest equally). So... yeah... I guess you could say I'm pretty apathetic about it all these days. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeor Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 It may well be party first and nation second, but one hopes that if there are enough informed, serious voters in the electorate, that would bring both of those interests much closer together. In any system of government/organisation there will always be self-interest on the part of the ruling powers, it's just how close you can bring that self-interest to the national interest. Political parties live and die by popularity, so if what is popular is good for the country, then we'll be fine. Unfortunately, society in general is not necessarily so well-informed and has a tendency to be highly short-termist, and the lack of engagement with our political system only drives the wedge between party/country even wider. More engagement in our political system by the electorate would bring party/country interests closer together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sh_wulff Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Talking politics, glad the latest loopiness of giving doctors a pay cut and forcing them to charge patients has been withdrawn. the Liberal party needs to learn to negotiate. No one else has been asked to take a 50% pay cut ( changing the Medicare rebate for consultaions between 5-10 minutes was a bad idea) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stubby Posted January 16, 2015 Author Share Posted January 16, 2015 Talking politics, glad the latest loopiness of giving doctors a pay cut and forcing them to charge patients has been withdrawn. the Liberal party needs to learn to negotiate. No one else has been asked to take a 50% pay cut ( changing the Medicare rebate for consultaions between 5-10 minutes was a bad idea) Cutting medicare is ideological for them, wulffie. The idea that the well to do among their supporters might have to contribute to the well-being of their fellow humans is simply wrongheaded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkhangel Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 We can stop pretending like voting is a way to 'do something about it', I would be pretty pissed off if I was bitching about something the gov't did and someone said 'well you don't get to complain, you didn't vote for the other team - our team'. What if I equally detest the other team for different reasons? Then how the fuck is voting a way to change anything? Short of endorsing the violent overthrow of a democratically elected government, voting is the only way to change anything. When people complain that voting doesn't change anything, what they're actually complaining about is the fact that their own personal vote doesn't magically determine the outcome of the election. They seem to somehow miss that that's the whole point of democracy - that if you want to make change you need to both participate and to convince other people of the value of those changes, rather than sitting on your hands and bitching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stubby Posted January 16, 2015 Author Share Posted January 16, 2015 Short of endorsing the violent overthrow of a democratically elected government, voting is the only way to change anything. When people complain that voting doesn't change anything, what they're actually complaining about is the fact that their own personal vote doesn't magically determine the outcome of the election. They seem to somehow miss that that's the whole point of democracy - that if you want to make change you need to both participate and to convince other people of the value of those changes, rather than sitting on your hands and bitching. And in the last Federal election, here in WA, the fact that just 1400 Senate votes went missing lead to the entire State having to re-vote in the Senate. It really did come down to individual Senate votes in both the first and second attempts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sh_wulff Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Cutting medicare is ideological for them, wulffie. The idea that the well to do among their supporters might have to contribute to the well-being of their fellow humans is simply wrongheaded.They are actually cutting the Medicare rebate to GPs , the people that work hard to keep people well and out of hospital. Most costs come in the last four years of life, and thru duplication. So to keep your local non- corporate GP practice going one is going to have to charge the $5 they take away , in addition to the extra they need to charge to cover the costs of collecting this. In addition they are not indexing the rebate for the next 3 years, the Medicare rebate is alredy behind CPI increases. Pity the majority of doctors vote liberal and are not unionised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arya_underfoot Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Talking politics, glad the latest loopiness of giving doctors a pay cut and forcing them to charge patients has been withdrawn. the Liberal party needs to learn to negotiate. No one else has been asked to take a 50% pay cut ( changing the Medicare rebate for consultaions between 5-10 minutes was a bad idea) The original co-payment was one of the few (partially) sensible policies the Liberals came up with in their budget. Pity that populism alwasy trumps good policy in this country. This sneaky cut to short consultations, however, was never going to fly- not only were they trying to make savings by forcing GP's to charge a co-payment (no way any bulk billing GP could have suddenly accomodated such a big drop in their income), the timing was also cynically devious. I hope some advisers got fired over this. Pity the majority of doctors vote liberal and are not unionised. This was the sort of reasoning Newman used when he decided to take on hospital specialists (to trash their conditions) in Queensland last year. He had no idea about the amount of community support doctors enjoy, and the inevitable backlash happened. The result- a humiliating backdown that is now likely to play a role in his unseating at the upcoming election. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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