R+L=J v. 107

[UnmaskedLurker]

Well Sean Bean could know 100% for sure. Remember the special secret that every cast characters knows to act better ? For Sean Bean it would be obviously R+L=J. You understand Ned's thoughts when you know about R+L=J.

I highly doubt Sean Bean knows with any degree of certainty more than we all know. He has probably read all the same analysis that we have read (or written). He knows that it is the only solution that makes sense. And he has a big mouth. If he actually had been given confirmation from GRRM or D&D, then he is an even bigger a-hole than I thought for saying it out loud. That he said it out loud make me strongly suspect that he knows no more than we do.

The only people I am aware of that GRRM has confirmed knows are D&D. They had to be told so they could be sure they could finish the story even if GRRM died. I suspect his editor knows. Other than that, not sure who else might have been given specific confirmation, but I doubt it would be any of the actors. Actor just have big mouths and talk to the press too much. They cannot be trusted.

[Alia of the knife]

Who do you think knows about Jon's parents besides GRRM? His wife Parris, his editors, D&D, Elio?

Alfie Allen, Sophie Turner.....

[BearQueen87]

Alfie Allen, Sophie Turner.....

But do they know know or do they only suspect based on reading the books and paying attention to the popular theories? I think it's the latter personally.

[Ghost's Shadow]

Am I remembering something wrong (did I make it up) that I might have once read that Sean Bean didn't get Ned so he was told about Jon to get it? Best if the actor gets his character, right? :lol:

[UnmaskedLurker]

Am I remembering something wrong (did I make it up) that I might have once read that Sean Bean didn't get Ned so he was told about Jon to get it? Best if the actor gets his character, right? :lol:

That might have been speculation, but I don't think I ever read confirmation of that fact. I don't think they told SB anything. I think he just figured it out like the rest of us and now accepts it as fact.

[sj4iy]

I highly doubt Sean Bean knows with any degree of certainty more than we all know. He has probably read all the same analysis that we have read (or written). He knows that it is the only solution that makes sense. And he has a big mouth. If he actually had been given confirmation from GRRM or D&D, then he is an even bigger a-hole than I thought for saying it out loud. That he said it out loud make me strongly suspect that he knows no more than we do.

The only people I am aware of that GRRM has confirmed knows are D&D. They had to be told so they could be sure they could finish the story even if GRRM died. I suspect his editor knows. Other than that, not sure who else might have been given specific confirmation, but I doubt it would be any of the actors. Actor just have big mouths and talk to the press too much. They cannot be trusted.

Alfie Allen asked GRRM and Martin told him. Sean Bean may or may not know, but it's a possibility considering how important it is to his character. I remember reading that Martin's editor guessed Jon Snow's parents early on (although I couldn't produce the source because there's too much clutter on the search engine now, so I'm not 100%). In any case, D&D aren't the only confirmed knows since Alfie Allen asked and was told.

[Alia of the knife]

I think very early on, only D&D knew for sure, some suspected like Bean and he let out some important info. for which he got the kibosh on saying anything else. Then, over the years, Harrington, Alfie Allen started talking, Clarke, and later Sophie Turner, so I think the gag order was lifted, and Martin is ready to be done with that secret so he can move on.

[Alia of the knife]

But do they know know or do they only suspect based on reading the books and paying attention to the popular theories? I think it's the latter personally.

At this point? I think they know.

Whether they come to forums like these, I don't know, but I know Martin does not because he wants to keep his thought processes pure. It is rumored that Parris occasionally comes to the forums and "lurks."

[Anthony Morris]

Bloodraven and Bittersteel were most likely born in the Red Keep, considering that they were fathered and most likely born while their respective mothers were mistresses of the king, and thus lived at court.

This could suggest that bastard name has nothing to do with the place of birth, but with the origin of parents and (perhaps to a lesser degree) with the place where the bastards lived later.

Edric Storm was most certainly born in the Reach, and was named 'Storm' because King Robert acknowledged him early on, and he then later lived in the Stormlands. It would be not surprising that many bastards only 'earn' their bastard name later in life when their noble father shows up and acknowledges them as their own.

i thought Edric was conceived in Stannis' marital bed at storms end ohhh forget it as she was a Florent she probably went home for the birth

[Anthony Morris]

As for who truly knows about Jon's parentage i suspect only GRRM his wife and D&D he had no reason to tell any of the actors from the show as they only read words off of a script . Iirc the actor who played Robb stark didnt know his fate untill he reached that point in the books so i dont see why he would tell Alfie Allen unless theon has an important part to play in Jon finding out and i cant see how that is possible because in the books theon hardly has any thoughts about Jon let alone his parentage

[BearQueen87]

1. What are the catalysts that will influence Jon Snow's moral downfall?

Conversely: what are the catalysts that will establish Jon Snow as one of the heroes of Westeros who will bring the Dawn in the war against the Others.

[sj4iy]

Conversely: what are the catalysts that will establish Jon Snow as one of the heroes of Westeros who will bring the Dawn in the war against the Others.

Yeah, I think the story is pointing this way.

[FrozenFire3]

I don't think any of these actors know much of anything... They may think they do, but they don't... Some may have started talking, yet nothing has ever really come out...

Well...

A lot of that comes down to sitting down with Dave and Dan and saying, "What happens in season 6? Because I don't know what I'm doing." And they'll tell you what you're doing. I've had many moments with the actors where I've taken them aside and told them, "This is what happens next season" or even at the end of the whole series. And they'll go, "Oh, thank God you told me that. Now I know how to play it."

Source

Alfie Allen asked GRRM and Martin told him. Sean Bean may or may not know, but it's a possibility considering how important it is to his character. I remember reading that Martin's editor guessed Jon Snow's parents early on (although I couldn't produce the source because there's too much clutter on the search engine now, so I'm not 100%). In any case, D&D aren't the only confirmed knows since Alfie Allen asked and was told.

Here :) Also Bryan Cogman, who, along with D&D, visited Martin at his home in Santa Fe back in February last year to pump him for information about story arcs and endgame.

[BearQueen87]

Yeah, I think the story is pointing this way.

Indeed. I have no doubt that Jon will be different, somewhat, upon reawakening (more determined, perhaps more willing to "do what it takes") but the idea that he's going to be a flat out villain...eh.

[Ghost's Shadow]

Lol, yeah, no...

Perhaps the Jon Snow before stabbing wouldn't have accepted Winterfell/KitN title when offered, but the one that'll wake up after the stabbing?

The Night's Watch just isn't this instrument to fight the Other that it is supposed to be, and no matter what Jon does (adding Free Folk to the NW) is going to help enough, really. It shows he's at least trying, but there's a big difference between what's actually at the Wall right now and the supposedly 10,000 warriors that should have been there, what the Wall was meant to have.

If Bowen & co would still be alive when the Others come over the Wall, who'll run first? The Free Folk who get what they're fighting, or the ones who think they're actually safe on that side of the Wall with their 'oh, just close the gates and then it'll be fine.' :lol:

[UnmaskedLurker]

Yeah, I think the story is pointing this way.

I think pretty much everyone other than addicted to snow thinks the story is pointing this way--but maybe he is the genius and we all just don't see the truth for what it is (but I highly doubt it).

[Rhaegal Targaryen]

I think pretty much everyone other than addicted to snow thinks the story is pointing this way--but maybe he is the genius and we all just don't see the truth for what it is (but I highly doubt it).

It seems that some people are in love with the idea of Jon becoming a villain although it's a very rare case.

[BearQueen87]

It seems that some people are in love with the idea of Jon becoming a villain although it's a very rare case.

I think it has a lot to do with us being taught and conditioned that when it comes to GRRM we are to expect the unexpected. A lot of that is GRRM selling himself as someone who doesn't like telling the same stories over and over again. And yes, to some degree that's true. But Jon has been walking hero road for awhile now. It would be more bizarre to suddenly make him some sort of pure black hat just the value of shock.

[Rhaegal Targaryen]

I think it has a lot to do with us being taught and conditioned that when it comes to GRRM we are to expect the unexpected. A lot of that is GRRM selling himself as someone who doesn't like telling the same stories over and over again. And yes, to some degree that's true. But Jon has been walking hero road for awhile now. It would be more bizarre to suddenly make him some sort of pure black hat just the value of shock.

Agreed GRRM has many times done something unexpected but it's rather clear that he has shaped Jon into becoming a hero although Jon is no saint either,GRRM did a brilliant job at making him a grey character rather than the hidden prince who beated the Others,restored balance to the world thanks to his airbending skills,married Daenerys and lived happily afterwards.We could at least get some foreshadowing about Jon becoming a villain or any signs of that but making him the bad guy so suddenly is em problematic <_< ?Shaping him to become a hero and then suddenly turning him into a villian is not how a story works IMO.

[UnmaskedLurker]

Agreed GRRM has many times done something unexpected but it's rather clear that he has shaped Jon into becoming a hero although Jon is no saint either,GRRM did a brilliant job at making him a grey character rather than the hidden prince who beated the Others,restored balance to the world thanks to his airbending skills,married Daenerys and lived happily afterwards.We could at least get some foreshadowing about Jon becoming a villain or any signs of that but making him the bad guy so suddenly is em problematic <_< ?Shaping him to become a hero and then suddenly turning him into a villian is not how a story works IMO.

To be fair to addicted to snow, in past posts he put forth "foreshadowing" that he thought indicated clues that Jon would become a villain. Many of us jumped all over his "evidence" and showed why we were not convinced by it. But addicted to snow clearly does believe that GRRM has put foreshadowing in the text so far to suggest Jon will be a villain. I (and others) thought the clues (and he theories) were more comical than persuasive. But I give him credit for perseverance in the face of strong opposition.