Question about Jaime, Lord Bolton, and Vargo

[Darkstar112]

I tried looking a little for this yesterday but didnt get time, how do the sizes in terms of troops vary between the houses that were north followers. Surely it would have been a better choice to have either Glover or Tallhart in charge over Bolton based on previous history?

As im re-reading Game of Thrones those are the two houses that Ned tells Cat to contact when shes in KL's with the dagger.

If Edmure had followed orders and things had gone to plan, do you think it would have still lead to Bolton turning or was that too insignificant to matter?

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

I tried looking a little for this yesterday but didnt get time, how do the sizes in terms of troops vary between the houses that were north followers. Surely it would have been a better choice to have either Glover or Tallhart in charge over Bolton based on previous history?

As im re-reading Game of Thrones those are the two houses that Ned tells Cat to contact when shes in KL's with the dagger.

If Edmure had followed orders and things had gone to plan, do you think it would have still lead to Bolton turning or was that too insignificant to matter?

Had Edmure followed his orders, he would not have stalled the Lannisters enough for them to hear about Stannis and return to KL in time for the Blackwater.

So it depends.. if the Tyrell force alone wouldn't have been enough to crush Stannis, Stannis would have taken KL, executed Joffrey and Cersei, caught Tommen even perhaps.. that would mean that the Lannisters were losing, and Roose wouldn't have supported them then.

If the Tyrells alone had been enough to defeat Stannis, though, Roose most likely still would have seen it as the Lannisters being on the winning side, and thus most likely still would have supported House Lannister and betrayed Robb.

[Ramsay Gimp]

I tried looking a little for this yesterday but didnt get time, how do the sizes in terms of troops vary between the houses that were north followers. Surely it would have been a better choice to have either Glover or Tallhart in charge over Bolton based on previous history?

As im re-reading Game of Thrones those are the two houses that Ned tells Cat to contact when shes in KL's with the dagger.

If Edmure had followed orders and things had gone to plan, do you think it would have still lead to Bolton turning or was that too insignificant to matter?

The most powerful Northern House (apart from the Starks) is the Manderlys. They control White Harbor (the only Northern city) and therefore bring in a ton more gold/silver than the rest of the North. But Bolton is still one of the strongest and most prestigious Northern Houses, with a history going back as far as the Starks. Roose brought nearly 4,000 troops to Robb's host, the most of any Stark bannermen

[John Suburbs]

Another key question is if Jaime had still been captive at Riverrun, would Tywin have given the go ahead for the Red Wedding? He still had hopes that someday Jaime would be Lord of the Rock. Would he sacrifice Jaime, and leave Tyrion as his sole male heir, in order to remove Robb and his army from the field?

Or do you think he would still be able to plausibly deny any involvement and pin the whole thing on a Bolton/Frey plot? perhaps even luring the Blackfish into a fake alliance only to screw him over later?

[JonBranRickon]

Good question and I'm sure the answer is no he wouldn't have.

Another key question is if Jaime had still been captive at Riverrun, would Tywin have given the go ahead for the Red Wedding? He still had hopes that someday Jaime would be Lord of the Rock. Would he sacrifice Jaime, and leave Tyrion as his sole male heir, in order to remove Robb and his army from the field?

Or do you think he would still be able to plausibly deny any involvement and pin the whole thing on a Bolton/Frey plot? perhaps even luring the Blackfish into a fake alliance only to screw him over later?

[Ramsay Gimp]

Another key question is if Jaime had still been captive at Riverrun, would Tywin have given the go ahead for the Red Wedding? He still had hopes that someday Jaime would be Lord of the Rock. Would he sacrifice Jaime, and leave Tyrion as his sole male heir, in order to remove Robb and his army from the field?

Or do you think he would still be able to plausibly deny any involvement and pin the whole thing on a Bolton/Frey plot? perhaps even luring the Blackfish into a fake alliance only to screw him over later?

They would have Edmure to trade for Jaime. They planned on capturing Cat as well, but that went sour

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Another key question is if Jaime had still been captive at Riverrun, would Tywin have given the go ahead for the Red Wedding? He still had hopes that someday Jaime would be Lord of the Rock. Would he sacrifice Jaime, and leave Tyrion as his sole male heir, in order to remove Robb and his army from the field?

Or do you think he would still be able to plausibly deny any involvement and pin the whole thing on a Bolton/Frey plot? perhaps even luring the Blackfish into a fake alliance only to screw him over later?

Good question. I guess no, the Red Wedding wouldn't have happened, at least not in the way it was planned.

They would have Edmure to trade for Jaime. They planned on capturing Cat as well, but that went sour

That would mean that Robb would have felt secure leaving Jaime at Riverrun, whilst taking most of his strength to the north. I'm not 100% whether or not he would have done that..

[Ramsay Gimp]

That would mean that Robb would have felt secure leaving Jaime at Riverrun, whilst taking most of his strength to the north. I'm not 100% whether or not he would have done that..

Well if not, then Jaime would have been at the Twins with Robb's army, and Tywin could just plan with Frey/Bolton to free him during the massacre. It's kind of risky but wouldn't be that hard to pull off. After Jaime got captured Tywin always knew there was a chance he could die

[Darkstar112]

The most powerful Northern House (apart from the Starks) is the Manderlys. They control White Harbor (the only Northern city) and therefore bring in a ton more gold/silver than the rest of the North. But Bolton is still one of the strongest and most prestigious Northern Houses, with a history going back as far as the Starks. Roose brought nearly 4,000 troops to Robb's host, the most of any Stark bannermen

Ah yes Manderlys slipped my mind, I think in game of thrones its mentioned for Manderly to start raising an army or the such wasnt it.... or is my memory jumping around too much from reading different threads? so Roose bought 4000 troops, was Ramsays sized force that he slayed Rodrik with ever mentioned?

I think im just bitter about Robb dieing, especially how for me then the story line took somewhat of a downward turn after ASOS.

[JonBranRickon]

Ah yes Manderlys slipped my mind, I think in game of thrones its mentioned for Manderly to start raising an army or the such wasnt it.... or is my memory jumping around too much from reading different threads? so Roose bought 4000 troops, was Ramsays sized force that he slayed Rodrik with ever mentioned?

I think im just bitter about Robb dieing, especially how for me then the story line took somewhat of a downward turn after ASOS.

The immediate ascpect of revenge and righting what was wrong was taken from us when Robb died. But I see the Starks winning in the end one little battle at a time.

[Ramsay Gimp]

Ah yes Manderlys slipped my mind, I think in game of thrones its mentioned for Manderly to start raising an army or the such wasnt it.... or is my memory jumping around too much from reading different threads? so Roose bought 4000 troops, was Ramsays sized force that he slayed Rodrik with ever mentioned?

I think im just bitter about Robb dieing, especially how for me then the story line took somewhat of a downward turn after ASOS.

You're correct I think, Manderly could have sent a lot more troops to Robb but Robb ordered him to defend White Harbor and start building a fleet instead.

Ramsay has 600 men when he attacks Ser Rodrik and sacks Winterfell. So that's nearly 5,000 from the Boltons alone so far, and they probably have more.

I'd say the story's downturn has less to do with Robb's death per se, than with the end of the War of 5 Kings. It just so happens that the Red Wedding is what ended that war. Though conflicts are still raging across Westeros, they are less coherent and connected.

[Darkstar112]

Realistically then the Freys and Boltons made up what 2/3 thirds of the Northern Force? Makes sense the fighting (outside) at the Red Wedding was over so quickly then as with Glover and Talhart gone Robbs loyal troops must have been few.

You are correct the war of the 5 Kings ending along with Robbs death meant that the main arc of the story up to that point then ended and quite abruptly. The way the rest of ASOS then played out after the Red Wedding was still a great read but then AFFC just didnt really have anything for me.

The fight between Stannis and Bolton should be a great way to kick of WOW and I am hoping that Rickon makes his way to White Harbour and then we have a possible mini war between the Starks, Boltons and Freys.

It would be good before the series ends for the Direwolf banner to fly again and at least give the Starks some form of "happy ending". Then again Martin might kick the bucket before the last books written.

[Ramsay Gimp]

Realistically then the Freys and Boltons made up what 2/3 thirds of the Northern Force? Makes sense the fighting (outside) at the Red Wedding was over so quickly then as with Glover and Talhart gone Robbs loyal troops must have been few.

Bolton brought 3,500 - 4000 men but there was still 20,000 total Northern troops. Not sure what the numbers would have been by the time of the Red Wedding - significantly lower