Dr. Pepper Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 The midwife in the book was there,but i think for show purposes having Claire deliver the baby was being used as something the ladies could bond over. Book stuff should be in spoiler tags. Yes, it all happened very different in the book. The book is 800+ pages so there is space to watch Claire spend months at Lallybroch interacting and bonding with everyone there, including Jenny. It's obviously condensed for the show. Still, I think bonding over the birth was an interesting plot and was filmed very beautifully. You could tell at the start that Jenny was barely humoring Claire, but once she found out that Claire was all she had and she had resigned herself to dying, that's where the trust and bonding really started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mother of The Others Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 At Lallybroch we've shifted over to the business management side of time travel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfmaid7 Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Book stuff should be in spoiler tags. Yes, it all happened very different in the book. The book is 800+ pages so there is space to watch Claire spend months at Lallybroch interacting and bonding with everyone there, including Jenny. It's obviously condensed for the show. Still, I think bonding over the birth was an interesting plot and was filmed very beautifully. You could tell at the start that Jenny was barely humoring Claire, but once she found out that Claire was all she had and she had resigned herself to dying, that's where the trust and bonding really started. Sorry Dr Pepper. I agree,it was beautifully done.Though i think it was a bit cliched,one of the only problems i've had with the adaptation of the series.It can be a bit predictable at times.Same thing with their depiction of Jenny and Claire.Nevertheless it made for a very good dramatic and emotional scene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martini Sigil Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 I would like Jaimie & Claire to have one peril-free episode LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfmaid7 Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 I would like Jaimie & Claire to have one peril-free episode LOL Haha fat chance.Atleast not for a very long while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elaena Targaryen Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 minor spoilers for ep14 The Search Mmm I didn't care for the new episode, it's starts out good, I love Jenny and the ending was ok but I just didn't like the rest. And sorry Veltigar the voice-overs are back, that's not surprising since it happened at the very end of the last episode (which I didn't even catch at first since they don't really bother me and I enjoyed that episode so much) but it does seem fitting since it looks like Claire is feeling like an outlander again without Jaime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 Interestingly enough, many things have changed, but apparently the show business was always the same :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veltigar Posted May 11, 2015 Author Share Posted May 11, 2015 This episode was a pretty mixed-bag for me. The return of the voice-overs and the disjointed feel of the episode (I feel like we moved ahead a bit to quickly here) were things I could live without. On top of that, I thought this episode had a really standard, by the numbers kind of plot. Apart from the beginning, where we have that nice genderreversing take on the hero setting out on a journey to save his captured damsel in distress, everything was really predictable. The moment they began arguing about the soldier, I knew something would happen to get them out of the dilemma (God forbid our heroine killing someone in cold blood). I knew Claire was going to make a stupid 'you-never-loved-anyone' comment that would lead Murtagh into revealing his love for Jaime's mother the moment he appeared. Personally, I think it would have been better if they had made Murtagh gay. That would have made this whole reveal a bit less laboured and cliche. It would also have had the added advantages of fitting in with the genderswapping going on in this episode and it would have given this show some more nuanced gay characters (instead of the foppish duke and Randall the sadist). After that it was quite clear that Claire's act was going to get stolen. I also knew right away that Dougal would be there instead of Jaime as soon as they got that message. Finally, the whole 'least-impressive-member-of-gang-of-badasses-volunteering-for-an-impossible-mission-after-which-others-follow-his-example' has been done to death. I would have liked to see some surprises in this episode and I feel like they missed a lot of opportunities to implement a few curveballs. There were also some really bad developments, which I would like to call out. First Claire's 'I wasn't judging you, I was thinking about doing it myself' (I'm parafrasing here). I totally did not get that out of that scene and the explanation given later on really doesn't help that that scene just couldn't stand on its own. I don't know what it was exactly, either the writing or the acting (probably the writing, Balfe is brilliant in the rest of the episode) but something just wasn't quite right. Another thing I greatly disliked was Dougal the evil Genius. He's out to get Lallybroch and that's why he kept Jaime away for all those years? What the hell? Perhaps this rings false with me because just last week I asked the bookreaders here for some info on the relative size of Lallybroch compared to the Mackenzie lands, but this was pretty horrible imo. It just wasn't that believable. I knew they had to take Dougal out of te equation somehow, otherwise Claire wouldn't have been able to call the shots, but still, the development fell pretty flat. Luckily, there were also quite a few things that I liked. Like more scenery porn :) Scotland is so beautiful, this show has the best locations on TV imo. I was also grateful for the return of the Highlanders. They just add so much colour to this show and I was surprised how much they felt like family here. That was really nice. Outlander is really good at creating memorable minor characters that instantly endear themselves with the viewer imo (Not early Simpsons good, but they might get there). I was sad that the Watch captain wasn't saved this episode, but the introduction of the gypsy stemmed the loss a little bit. I also liked the characterdevelopment for Murtagh. Not so much the cliched 17th century Snape reveal, what I did love was his attempts at dancing. Really, his bad dancing and his reactions related to that added more layers to his character than the entire story about Jaime's mother. I hope to see him dance again sometime in the future. Another thing I really liked about this episode were the slices of Scotish life. I don't know if I'm the only one, but I think that really is one of this show's strong suits. A bit similar to shows like Vikings, who really excell when they show just what made the Vikings tick. I loved Claire's drag nummer and her and Murtagh travelling around. There was some really strong acting from Balfe there, that first 'oh fuck' on the stage was priceless :D Claire leading a ragtag band of Highlanders to save Jaime was also a nice way to end this episode (although it felt a bit to cliffhangery for my liking). It was again a good reversal of the usual genderroles in this kind of series. I also feel like they did a good job at showing us Jaime's supportbase for a possible future bit for the position of laird. Conflict between Jaime and Dougal is inevitable after this episode imo, the most logical place to frame that conflict imo would be in the election of a new Laird in some future episode. People would follow Jaime because he was kind to them and they loved him (although I fear for poor Will, he has victim written all over him). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mother of The Others Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 As Mister Time Travel, I momentarily had a complaint about how Claire was making herself famous in the past which would have changed history in a harder than usual way..... but then they took care of my gripe by saying there was another historical singer who did the same act. So..... paradox worries subsided. Back to a safe green rating on the Rainbow of Doom threat assessment scale! And we got to see some nice countryside and ninja hijinx. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfmaid7 Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 My take on this episode is a bit mixed: I loved the scenic route the Highlands are stunning and the acting ofcourse is really great. I've had issues with some of the changes they've made because they didn't flow well,make sense etc. The Gypsy plot was too drawn out for me there is a reason why we didn't get every detail of that in the books They have subbed relationship dynamic between Jamie and Claire for a lot of action to the point where i can't in logic see why she stayed with Jamie except maybe he's better in bed. The scene with Murtagh and Claire was easily the most touching scene since season 2 began,i felt more with her and Murtagh than her and Jamie.Claire and Dougal's conversation about saving Jamie made no logical sense whatsoever. I like the voice overs when they are used in the right places. Did i mention that whole Gypsy plot took to long? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Bauer 24 Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 My take on this episode is a bit mixed: I loved the scenic route the Highlands are stunning and the acting ofcourse is really great. I've had issues with some of the changes they've made because they didn't flow well,make sense etc. The Gypsy plot was too drawn out for me there is a reason why we didn't get every detail of that in the books They have subbed relationship dynamic between Jamie and Claire for a lot of action to the point where i can't in logic see why she stayed with Jamie except maybe he's better in bed. The scene with Murtagh and Claire was easily the most touching scene since season 2 began,i felt more with her and Murtagh than her and Jamie.Claire and Dougal's conversation about saving Jamie made no logical sense whatsoever. I like the voice overs when they are used in the right places. Did i mention that whole Gypsy plot took to long?Since Season 2 began? This is Season 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veltigar Posted May 11, 2015 Author Share Posted May 11, 2015 Since Season 2 began? This is Season 1. :agree: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Pepper Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 On one hand, I loved this episode, on the other hand this episode annoyed me. On it's own, this one was great. I love seeing Jenny and Claire being knights in shining armor, especially loved seeing Jenny 'walk it out' when her vagina was probably still a tad sore and those breasts, god I was cringing just thinking how painful they must have been. I did really like the conversation between Claire and Dougal. You could easily see her thought process when Dougal was all "what would Jamie do". Well, Jamie would tell her to shut up and think, and then he'd tell her to play the part she needs to play in order to get what she wants. So she followed his example, and of course the gypsy's example and look Dougal in the eye and told him what he wanted to hear. She learned to lie and play a part. If it doesn't work out, she always has the stones. The reason this episode annoyed me is because I've read the books. I wish I hadn't. I start feeling irritated when certain things are given more time than others. Grr. Another thing I greatly disliked was Dougal the evil Genius. He's out to get Lallybroch and that's why he kept Jaime away for all those years? What the hell? Perhaps this rings false with me because just last week I asked the bookreaders here for some info on the relative size of Lallybroch compared to the Mackenzie lands, but this was pretty horrible imo. It just wasn't that believable. I knew they had to take Dougal out of te equation somehow, otherwise Claire wouldn't have been able to call the shots, but still, the development fell pretty flat. I might not have explained it all that well. But it's more Dougal wanting to spread the Jacobite influence. If he brings Jamie to his side, he can do that. If he marries Claire, he can do that. Without it, he's stuck just shilling for Charlie on the MacKenzie lands. But the story does continue to develop and I'll put some in spoilers below. Fraser family lineage stuff, with spoilers relating to Dougal's comments this episode.I'd have to rewatch but the way Murtaugh spoke made it seem like Bryan Fraser has a different relation with the Fraser clan. In the books, he's the acknowledged bastard son of The Fraser. He gets the Lallybroch lands after eloping with Ellen because The MacKenzie demands it. The Lallbybroch lands are lush and fertile and very desirable and happen to connect with the MacKenzie lands. The paperwork for this included that the lands would revert to the Mackenzie's if Ellen and her male heir both die and the male heir has no wife (the lands are hers) or male heir (the lands are his). So that gives more idea of why Dougal has been keen to alienate Jamie from Lallybroch. Either he can influence Jamie to his side or better, he can push Jamie into a position where he does something like join the Watch and then gets killed or something. The lands would then become MacKenzie lands. If Dougal marries Claire and Jamie's dead, the lands belong to her and so Dougal has control rather than Colum. We may or may not learn more about some of the shady shit Dougal has done to Jamie over the years. I'm explaining this poorly, but it may not matter if they do not go this route. I wish they had spent more time on Lallybroch so that we could get the lay of the land when it comes to the Frasers and the MacKenzies and what Jamie's place is in it all. Also, does this show air Friday or Saturday. It's been available on Fridays sometimes but sometimes only available on Saturdays. It's weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Bauer 24 Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 Saturday at 9pm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Pepper Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 Saturday at 9pm I wonder if it's a mistake with the OnDemand and online system since it seems they are definitely releasing much earlier than air time. A quick google search has revealed that it's released Friday evening online (which is how I've seen it on a Friday) and Saturday morning On Demand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Bauer 24 Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 I wonder if it's a mistake with the OnDemand and online system since it seems they are definitely releasing much earlier than air time. A quick google search has revealed that it's released Friday evening online (which is how I've seen it on a Friday) and Saturday morning On Demand. I'm in the States. Are you in the UK? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Pepper Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I'm in the States. Are you in the UK? No, in the states. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mother of The Others Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 It's like how they release movies on wednesday to max out their take for that "weekend." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martini Sigil Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 I kind of got a kick out of the Boogy woogy bugle boy scene... and Claire getting into performing... Dougal is a real prick LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veltigar Posted May 14, 2015 Author Share Posted May 14, 2015 I'd have to rewatch but the way Murtaugh spoke made it seem like Bryan Fraser has a different relation with the Fraser clan. In the books, he's the acknowledged bastard son of The Fraser. He gets the Lallybroch lands after eloping with Ellen because The MacKenzie demands it. The Lallbybroch lands are lush and fertile and very desirable and happen to connect with the MacKenzie lands. The paperwork for this included that the lands would revert to the Mackenzie's if Ellen and her male heir both die and the male heir has no wife (the lands are hers) or male heir (the lands are his). So that gives more idea of why Dougal has been keen to alienate Jamie from Lallybroch. Either he can influence Jamie to his side or better, he can push Jamie into a position where he does something like join the Watch and then gets killed or something. The lands would then become MacKenzie lands. If Dougal marries Claire and Jamie's dead, the lands belong to her and so Dougal has control rather than Colum. We may or may not learn more about some of the shady shit Dougal has done to Jamie over the years. I'm explaining this poorly, but it may not matter if they do not go this route. I wish they had spent more time on Lallybroch so that we could get the lay of the land when it comes to the Frasers and the MacKenzies and what Jamie's place is in it all. Also, does this show air Friday or Saturday. It's been available on Fridays sometimes but sometimes only available on Saturdays. It's weird. I'm not going to click on the spoilers, but I'll be curious to see if they keep whatever it was that you wrote in the series. really hope it's a good explanation :) Or are the spoilers minor? Because if they are I'll break and read them :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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