Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Cavendish

What was Lady's purpose in the books for Sansa?

Recommended Posts

She betrayed her STARK family, their sigil is the Direwolf. She therefore lot hers, Lady. It strikes me as symbolically saying. You, Sansa are no longer worhy of being a STARK.

She never said anything. Therefore, she didn't betrayed anyone. And it's interesting that someone that has such a deep connection with House Stark, as Sansa has, somehow is "not worthy" of being a Stark. Sansa is a Stark as much as Arya, Bran and Rickon are.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it represents her loosing her Stakness. She only dreamed of getting married and of going south.


Loyalty to her family , ties to the north and winterfell , all this was not important for her. T



Her plot is a quest to find back her "inner wolf". She doesn't need direwolf to be a proper Stark.


Her story after the end of ASOS is showing progress in the right direction.





And I disagree with the main line of thinking - That it somehow shows Sansa's disconnection with her family. Sansa's been more and more connected with her Stark ties ever since ACOK. And if Sansa is losing herself into Alayne, then Arya is also losing herself in becoming no one. I don't think any will "lose" themselves - Remember, this is the middle, not the end. Alayne and No one are only transformation phases.





I agree with that. And I don't think Sansa is losing herself into Alayne. On the opposite. Becoming Alayne was the biggest progress she made in going back to being a real Stark. One of the first things she did is Alyane is built the snow model of Winterfell.....


She even thought about Jon Snow.



Arya on the other hand is still losing her identity. She has outbreasts of Arya , but it often starts and ends in killing someone.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Arya on the other hand is still losing her identity. She has outbreasts of Arya , but it often starts and ends in killing someone.

:O

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

She never said anything. Therefore, she didn't betrayed anyone. And it's interesting that someone that has such a deep connection with House Stark, as Sansa has, somehow is "not worthy" of being a Stark. Sansa is a Stark as much as Arya, Bran and Rickon are.

Actually, she did say something. She claimed that she didn't remember. Which everyone knew to be a lie.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sansa is destined to marry and consumate, thus no longer being a Stark is one theory. Another is that there are prices you pay for certain dishonorable things. She betrayed her sister by lying to protect Joffrey. She betrayed her STARK family, their sigil is the Direwolf. She therefore lot hers, Lady. It strikes me as symbolically saying. You, Sansa are no longer worhy of being a STARK.

Contrary to popular belief, being a Stark isn't an honor bestowed on a chosen few, to be taken away when one falls short of arbitrary qualifications. It's a family, not a exclusive club.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I never saw sansa as a "stark" more as cat's daughter. She was so vapid that I really hated her. I felt more for ned having to kill lady than for sansa losing her. In a way I felt that sansa losing lady was her own fault. If she had told the truth. And I hate to say but while reading it I think sansa lied cuz she wanted arya to get in trouble. She had been whinning earlier how arya didnt get in trouble for anything and how arya would rather spend time with the butchers boy than sansa. I got the feeling that sansa was just being spiteful. I thought that losing lady was supposed to be a lesson, dont trust the lannisters, sadly a lesson she didnt learn.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I came up with a theory a while back that Sansa will warg a falcon as part of her taking over the Vale. She has been called a bird multiple times, she is a warg, and Falcons a predators like Direwolves, but are basically the Vales version.

I always considered Sansa being called a "little bird" that always repeats what it's been taught foreshadowing for her future association with Petyr Baelish (sigil: mockingbird). I don't believe her warging abilities died with Lady either, but she'll warg the old hound since it's kind of similar to a direwolf.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I never saw sansa as a "stark" more as cat's daughter. She was so vapid that I really hated her. I felt more for ned having to kill lady than for sansa losing her. In a way I felt that sansa losing lady was her own fault. If she had told the truth. And I hate to say but while reading it I think sansa lied cuz she wanted arya to get in trouble. She had been whinning earlier how arya didnt get in trouble for anything and how arya would rather spend time with the butchers boy than sansa. I got the feeling that sansa was just being spiteful. I thought that losing lady was supposed to be a lesson, dont trust the lannisters, sadly a lesson she didnt learn.

This is exactly how I feel about Sansa. I was furious that Sansa didn't even tell the truth when they decided to kill Lady. I think it was also really telling that she didn't take Lady with her when she walked with Joffrey because all the other Starks kept their wolves with them everywhere. I see it as proof of her difference from her siblings.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sansa is a Stark, Sansa is a warg, Sansa will warg a falcon, his name is SR Arryn he is the Falcon of the Vale.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sansa still feels a connection with Lady even though she's dead. In spite of her not being in living breathing form, she's the only direwolf in Winterfell atm, since her bones are buried in the lichyard.



She grew on me in later books, but I didn't like her much on first read through in AGOT. Even then I still considered her as much a Stark as any of the rest of the family.



The only Starks we know from the books who actually had direwolf pets are the children. When they were first discovered, Ned and the Winterfell kennel master wanted to kill them until Jon talked them out of it.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I always considered Sansa being called a "little bird" that always repeats what it's been taught foreshadowing for her future association with Petyr Baelish (sigil: mockingbird). I don't believe her warging abilities died with Lady either.

Yes! She and Lady were bound to each other. Their time together was relatively short and I don't think she had enough time with her to realize or develop her gift. The warg abilities of the Stark kids came from their bloodline, not the Direwolves themselves so I think she still possesses the ability. Without Lady it will be more difficult for her to discover and master it though. I always thought "Little Bird" to be a foreshadow of LF, like you said, and/or warging into a bird. Bran may not be the only "winged wolf" and the Vale had the Winged Knight as a hero.

Also, I think Ned killing Lady made him a kinslayer and for that he died. With her Direwolf and Father gone, being held captive at KL by cruel Cersei and Joff and the emotional and physical abuse she suffered Sansa became much more independent and strong. Characteristics I doubt she'd have had Lady and Ned survived.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Contrary to popular belief, being a Stark isn't an honor bestowed on a chosen few, to be taken away when one falls short of arbitrary qualifications. It's a family, not a exclusive club.

Ned is the Starkyist of the Starks, but he never had a direwolf.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just as one of the earlier posts mentioned there had to be 5 pups for the Stark children and 1 for Jon. The numbers had to match. Additionally, I think Lady's death showed that people's actions had consequences. Sansa lied (lie of omission) by stating that she didn't remember and saw nothing. Lady's death was a consequence (punishment if you will) of this lie. The whole scene introduces the readers to the extend of Joff's sadistic nature. We see it, Ned sees it, and Arya most definitely sees it. The reason I disliked Sansa in GoT was that even after all that went down with Cersie and Joff she still continued to blame Arya for Lady's death, the same Arya who fearlessly defended Lady. And not once do we see Sansa feel sorry for Mycah's death or blame Joff or Cersie for it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Enormous symbolism...
The destruction of innocence, removal of identity and maybe some borderline kin-slaying at a push.

...and an excellent plot tool.
It fuels more hatred towards Lannisters, in-difference towards Sansa and her wants. Removes the issue with having a Wolf in KL.

I drift between different ideas of foreshadowing and meaning. One idea is that it represents the fate of Sansa, to have her throat cut by a Stark on some ones orders. Like, maybe an assassin? Like Arya?!?!?!

Honestly though, I think it just serves to make us hate Lannisters and leave Sansa as defenseless as possible. I can't see her doing any warging, though this incident may of helped create a more 'Southernly' Stark. Her ambitions were 'Southernly' anyway and she never treated Lady like an actual wolf. Sansa is fortunate to have a more dynamic arc which is why she's still in the book. If she were more like Robb/Arya shed be dead by now. But not being a like her siblings shouldn't mean she doesn't love her family. You don't know what you have until it's gone and that's Sansas lesson for me. I don't want to sound misogynistic but I like the idea that she'll return to WF when the dust settles and she'll fill it with sons and daughters. Only as I'd like to see that family restored. They were...'nice'.

Anyway,

In conclusion, I'm happy to take it at face-value.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The show seems to imply that Lady's death helped Bran wake up. This isn't implied in the books but Lady's death happens at the end of Eddard's chapter, right before Bran wakes.



This could set up the possibility of Ghost being used to wake Jon.



Also it serves narrative purpose, people hate Cersei and King Robert, no need to write direwolves in the red keep, makes Sansa less identifiable etc etc


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I always felt like Rickon was one too many Stark children and he definitely gets the least attention from GRRM. I think it's possible that Sansa will get Shaggydog when Rickon dies. The name Shaggydog, of course, has a certain resonance with Sansa's character, don't you think? And going from "Lady" to "Shaggydog" may be symbolic of Sansa's path. First she believed in beauty and love and honor and other storybook stuff. But in the end she'll put more value on fierceness and loyalty, and not worry so much about prettiness.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was thinking about what happened and I think that lady was just a warning for Ned that he never listened to... and I don't blame Sansa for lady's death I thought about that for long time, we all know that Sansa is unreliable, it is not imposible that she was telling the truth. In her panic she might have really forgotten what happened exactly so not to insult anyone or say what she thought that happened without beign 100% sure she chose to say the truth about what she experienced, don't forget we are talking about Sansa...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lady's purpose was to be an animal companion who sniffed out trouble and mirrored the Stark child's spirit through its behavior to some extent.



The death of Lady's supernatural protection could have signaled the death of Sansa but it didn't. Sansa didn't die because she'd shifted to a different kind of protection that came from her living a different kind of life. So Sansa may still die, but only in the sense that any of the characters might still die. The direct danger from Lady's absence has passed. Sansa has had time to adapt to the loss of her 6th sense by learning to rely more on the other 5.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sansa still feels a connection with Lady even though she's dead. In spite of her not being in living breathing form, she's the only direwolf in Winterfell atm, since her bones are buried in the lichyard.

:agree:

All the Starks (Catelyn too) are deeply connected with death. The death of Lady, Sansa's other half, just signifies Sansa's connection to the afterlife. Also, I think it's really interesting that since aDWD Ghost is the wolf without a Stark and really highlights the parallels between Jon and Sansa.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I came up with a theory a while back that Sansa will warg a falcon as part of her taking over the Vale. She has been called a bird multiple times, she is a warg, and Falcons a predators like Direwolves, but are basically the Vales version.

It is known. :)

I think there's a clear parallel between Bran and Sansa. Yes, Bran has Summer, but warging him was dangerous for the broken boy... and whereas Bran was broken in body, Sansa was broken in spirit. Both Stark kids will be flying wolves -- both will warg into birds. There's quite a bit of flight imagery and bird symbolism that surrounds both storylines.

Birds "fly South" for the winter. And Sansa will be the Stark who will play the Southron Game of Thrones as the formidable Lady of the North. Because the North remembers... and so does Sansa Stark. She is Cat reborn, but she is still Ned's daughter.

Lady's death represents Sansa's loss of innocence and the loss of her inner "Lady", her ideals. It's the first example of "Life is not a song." Lady was a lot like Sansa - Always polite and eager to please, even docile. It is similar to the mask Sansa has to wear in King's Landing in order to survive.

And I disagree with the main line of thinking - That it somehow shows Sansa's disconnection with her family. Sansa's been more and more connected with her Stark ties ever since ACOK. And if Sansa is losing herself into Alayne, then Arya is also losing herself in becoming no one. I don't think any will "lose" themselves - Remember, this is the middle, not the end. Alayne and No one are only transformation phases.

I totally agree. My embryonic theory are that Arya and Sansa are like two halves of their aunt's personality -- Arya gets compared to Lyanna often, but it is Sansa who is the romantic and the dreamer who would choose love over family (if Lya truly did run away, or had an inkling of doing so).

Both Stark girls will get their revenge against those who wronged them and their House. Of course, Arya's is more overt and immediate, but that's Arya's personality. What Arya does with her sword, Sansa will do with her words.

Contrary to popular belief, being a Stark isn't an honor bestowed on a chosen few, to be taken away when one falls short of arbitrary qualifications. It's a family, not a exclusive club.

:agree:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×