profgrape Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Yup. If Khellus is sending the dreams to push Akka toward something, seems like the Heron Spear could be that something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Seswatha Jordan Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Its plausible, because Akka is dreaming of Nayu Cauti (sp?), and if I remember correctly he is the one to originally steal it, correct? So it just hinges on wether or not Kellhus is causing these dreams. I don't know though, I think Akka is tied very closely to the "God" of luck and chance. I forget the name, he's always calling it "the whore/bitch of fate". Kinda how Sorwell is tied to Yatwer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
profgrape Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Its plausible, because Akka is dreaming of Nayu Cauti (sp?), and if I remember correctly he is the one to originally steal it, correct? So it just hinges on wether or not Kellhus is causing these dreams. That's the story told in The Sagas. And while the some of the details are in question, it seems likely that the fact they recovered the Heron Spear is true. The thing that bothers me about the whole idea is the question of why Khellus, who's pretty much the biggest badass in Earwa, didn't get it himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhom Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 If Kellhus conditioned Akka to go retrieve the Heron Spear... Then presumably he didn't destroy Ishual. So who did in that scenario? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
profgrape Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 A couple of possibilities:1. The Consult. Somewhere in between the end of TWP and WLW, they found the monestary and destroyed it.2. The Dunyain. They've faked their own demise and have taken refuge elsewhere -- maybe the catacombs under the monestary? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anatúrinbor Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 As for the dreams that Achamian receives, I don't think Kellhus has anything to do with them, in particular the Nau-Cayuti dreams. For example the dream where Achamian witnesses "the fact" of Nau-Cayuti's assassination, as opposed to the experience, was sent to him by someone IMO. But that someone was alive when that thing happened and may have witnessed himself, either directly or through some sort of magic. So my money is on either a Consult member, a God, or a Nonman.I also don't think Kellhus is sending the dreams to Achamian. However, I'd note that the Synthese was surprised to learn that Achamian had found his way "back to the benjuka plate" in WLW, so it's probably not the Consult either. Unless individual Consult members don't really know what the others are doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
profgrape Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Agree that the Consult seems like a long-shot for the dream sender. If for no other reason, that would indicate that they already knew about Ishual. Of course, that would also answer the question of who destroyed the monestary...If the HS is the end goal, the Gods seem like a good guess as it was what got rid of the NG way back when. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hello World Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 I also don't think Kellhus is sending the dreams to Achamian. However, I'd note that the Synthese was surprised to learn that Achamian had found his way "back to the benjuka plate" in WLW, so it's probably not the Consult either. Unless individual Consult members don't really know what the others are doing. Well, I always saw Aurang as the Consult's tool or their errand boy. It's only natural that they wouldn't tell him anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sci-2 Posted October 30, 2014 Author Share Posted October 30, 2014 Keep in mind the world of Earwa apparently has final causes, so After can determine Before. And that the distance between dreams and reality is unclear, especially if all minds are part of God, and God is lucid dreaming reality into being. Perhaps Akka is meant to be somewhere at some particular somewhen, and this destiny acts as a lodestone drawing events toward it. Think attractors from dynamics. An attractor is a set of states (points in the phase space), invariant under the dynamics, towards which neighboring states in a given basin of attraction asymptotically approach in the course of dynamic evolution. An attractor is defined as the smallest unit which cannot be itself decomposed into two or more attractors with distinct basins of attraction. This restriction is necessary since a dynamical system may have multiple attractors, each with its own basin of attraction. The idea of multiple attractors competing to dominate in an ecosystem of final causes is an interesting one, perhaps this is where the notion of "false prophecies" comes in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anatúrinbor Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Well, I always saw Aurang as the Consult's tool or their errand boy. It's only natural that they wouldn't tell him anything. Where was it revealed that that was Aurang? The text only says 'Old Father'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hello World Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 In TTT or WP I think? The Synthese is called Aurang both in his own PoV and by an SS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentRoamer Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 You see Aurangs PoV primarily in TTT and Aurang isn't some sort of "tool or errand boy." He is possessing the Synthese and he posseses Esmi from Golgotterath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anatúrinbor Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 In TTT or WP I think? The Synthese is called Aurang both in his own PoV and by an SS. I'm talking about the one in WLW. Was there any confirmation that it's Aurang? There is no reason to believe that there's only one Synthese, or that only Aurang's soul can occupy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
profgrape Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 I also don't think Kellhus is sending the dreams to Achamian. However, I'd note that the Synthese was surprised to learn that Achamian had found his way "back to the benjuka plate" in WLW, so it's probably not the Consult either. Unless individual Consult members don't really know what the others are doing. When Khellus confronts possessed-Esme, he describes a scene of Consult sorcerers in Golgotterath chanting around Aurang's body to facilitate the long-range possession. Assuming that possessing the Synthese is the same, it would suggest that Aurang is basically in constant contact with Golgotterath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bolivar Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 I suspect there might be a cabal within the Consult of which does not trust Aurang, given how he exemplifies all of the extreme proclivities which led to the downfall of the Inchoroi and the loss of the principles of the Tekne. This might be hinted at when Kellhus confronts him his failing the no-god at mengedda. I just cant reconcile how Aurang has no idea who Kellhus is yet Mekeritrig just so happens to cross paths with him shortly after leaving Ishual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hello World Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 I'm talking about the one in WLW. Was there any confirmation that it's Aurang? There is no reason to believe that there's only one Synthese, or that only Aurang's soul can occupy it. Well, I don't think I had considered that before, but I guess it's possible we've seen more than just Aurang in one of those scenes. For the record the glossary says that the Syntheses are artifact made to house the souls of 'senior Consult figures'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anatúrinbor Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Assuming that possessing the Synthese is the same, it would suggest that Aurang is basically in constant contact with Golgotterath. But it doesn't suggest that other members aren't hiding anything from him. And you're assuming that Aurang is always in Synthese form, which is debatable, and IMO not true. But I was just thinking out loud there, I don't necessarily subscribe to the idea that they're hiding anything major away from him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 I suspect there might be a cabal within the Consult of which does not trust Aurang, given how he exemplifies all of the extreme proclivities which led to the downfall of the Inchoroi and the loss of the principles of the Tekne. This might be hinted at when Kellhus confronts him his failing the no-god at mengedda. I just cant reconcile how Aurang has no idea who Kellhus is yet Mekeritrig just so happens to cross paths with him shortly after leaving Ishual.maybe just that mekeretrig is fuckin bonkers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Seswatha Jordan Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 I don't believe that just Aurang is the only one using the synthese. I remember while reading the scene when the syntheses met Sarcellus outside of Momemn, that it was a far more important member. It just didn't feel like the earlier one. I don't know its been a while and I'd have to go back and read all the scenes with the syntheses, but that was my impression at the time. Sci, when u posted about the attractants was that in reference to what I said about Akka being tied to "The whore of fate"? Ive had this feeling that Anasurimbor prophecy is either false or interpreted falsley. I know many have speculated it before. Also, some hold to the theory that we're just gonna see the same story that happened in Seswatha's time. I don't. More than anything I think Kellhus will turn into the antagonist. Remember, " Ever are me deceived." And I think, (at least me) some forget that Kellhus is just a manipulative ass who is tricking people to get what he wants, and that he is utterly ruthless.ETA: I'm gonna finish abercrombies books then I'm not diving into anything else. I'm gonna do a slow, meticulous re-read of the entire series. I expect TUC to be published between March 15'-July 15'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaston de Foix Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 I expect TUC to be published between March 15'-July 15'. upon what do you base that expectation? Despite RSB's professed seeking out of Pat's email to share an excerpt way back in March 2014, nothing has been shared as far as I can tell. If there's no excerpt ready for sharing, I very much doubt the book will be published in 2015 at all. If it is, then close to the end. I'm curious to understand your assessment though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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