Chrysaerys_Blackfyre Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Jon is named for rhaegars bff jon connington not jon arryn. Lyanna would have chosen a name already and Ned wouldn't have changed it. She had no connection with jon arryn so there's no reason other then him being Rhaegar son that his name is jon. And what could the promise Ned made her be if not to keep her son safe? This is one of the easier theories to believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Jon is named for rhaegars bff jon connington not jon arryn. Lyanna would have chosen a name already and Ned wouldn't have changed it. She had no connection with jon arryn so there's no reason other then him being Rhaegar son that his name is jon. And what could the promise Ned made her be if not to keep her son safe? This is one of the easier theories to believe.1) Jon Connington was not Rhaegars bff. No matter how close a friend JonCon believes he was to Rhaegar, there weer plenty closer to the prince. Arthur Dayne, for example.2) GRRM said specifically that Ned named Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taenqyrhae Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 This all ties together with and supports the theory that Jon Connington is Jon Snow's mother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Snowfyre Chorus Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 1) Jon Connington was not Rhaegars bff. No matter how close a friend JonCon believes he was to Rhaegar, there weer plenty closer to the prince. Arthur Dayne, for example.2) GRRM said specifically that Ned named Jon True, on both counts. But that does not exclude the possibility that... 1) Rhaegar may have been Connington's bff; and2) Lyanna may also have named Jon. (Food for thought.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumHam Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 True, on both counts. But that does not exclude the possibility that... 1) Rhaegar may have been Connington's bff; and 2) Lyanna may also have named Jon. (Food for thought.) So your theory is that Lyanna named her son after a guy who wanted to fuck her boyfriend, and then Ned coincidentally gave him the same name? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 True, on both counts. But that does not exclude the possibility that... 1) Rhaegar may have been Connington's bff; and2) Lyanna may also have named Jon. (Food for thought.)1) we don't know how close Rhaegar and JonCon were. But Arthur Dayne has been stated specifically to have been Rhaegars best friend. If Rhaegar was going to name his son after a friend (which also has the need for Rhaegar to believe he would be having a son in the first place), why not name him after your best friend?2) if Lyanna named Jon Jon, there would be no need for Ned to name him Jon, as his name would already be Jon, now would there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearQueen87 Posted October 16, 2014 Author Share Posted October 16, 2014 True, on both counts. But that does not exclude the possibility that... 1) Rhaegar may have been Connington's bff; and 2) Lyanna may also have named Jon. (Food for thought.) If (big if IMO) Lyanna also named him Jon then I don't think it was for JonCon, but for Jon Stark, King in the North. However, I'm on team "she named him Aemon" if she named him anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Snowfyre Chorus Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 So your theory is that Lyanna named her son after a guy who wanted to fuck her boyfriend, and then Ned coincidentally gave him the same name? No, it's not a theory. It's only a possibility. I'd say there's "room in the text." :) 2) if Lyanna named Jon Jon, there would be no need for Ned to name him Jon, as his name would already be Jon, now would there? Now that's a decent point. Though, on the other hand, it would have made Ned's decision much easier. Lyanna: "Ned, his name is Jon. Promise me you're not going to change his name after I die." Ned: "Oh come on... would I do that? Why would I do that? Jon is a wonderful name. So, um... original! And... creative..." Lyanna: "Ned, you better fucking promise me. Do it now. Promise me, Ned..." If (big if IMO) Lyanna also named him Jon then I don't think it was for JonCon, but for Jon Stark, King in the North. However, I'm on team "she named him Aemon" if she named him anything. I do like the idea that "Jon Snow" is not his true name. Actually, it's intriguing to think that his "true name" might never be known. It would tie in rather well with the theme and motif of namelessness that Martin weaves into this story... (see: the old gods, the Unsullied, etc). And it's an idea that puts me in mind of Susanna Clarke's John Uskglass, the "nameless slave" who grew to become the Raven King (aka, the Black King, the King of the North). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Snowfyre Chorus Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Doesn't Jon seem more like a garnet than a ruby? I'd even say a carbuncle, perhaps. What would the Elder Brother do, if he ended up with six rubies and a carbuncle? Would he view the set as complete? No takers on the Jon Snow / Garnet idea, eh? What's the difference between a ruby and a garnet in Westeros, anyway? There definitely seems to be one. "Garnets lack the fire," according to Lord Tywin... and when LC Mormont has a new hilt made for Longclaw, the snarling wolf's head pommel is set with "chips of garnet" for eyes. Later, when Jon reunites with Ghost just before he's chosen as lord commander, he notes that Ghost's eyes are red - but not like Melisandre's (she of the nightfires and rubies). Instead, Ghost's eyes are the blood red of the weirwood faces and the old gods... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearQueen87 Posted October 16, 2014 Author Share Posted October 16, 2014 No takers on the Jon Snow / Garnet idea, eh? What's the difference between a ruby and a garnet in Westeros, anyway? There definitely seems to be one. "Garnets lack the fire," according to Lord Tywin... and when LC Mormont has a new hilt made for Longclaw, the snarling wolf's head pommel is set with "chips of garnet" for eyes. Later, when Jon reunites with Ghost just before he's chosen as lord commander, he notes that Ghost's eyes are red - but not like Melisandre's (she of the nightfires and rubies). Instead, Ghost's eyes are the blood red of the weirwood faces and the old gods... Truth be told, I'm not 100% sure what the difference is; I know there is a difference compositionally, but to me, they are both red, shiny, and pretty. Jon might be a "garnet" somehow, but all of Rhaegar's rubies were rubies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Stargaryen Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Truth be told, I'm not 100% sure what the difference is; I know there is a difference compositionally, but to me, they are both red, shiny, and pretty. Jon might be a "garnet" somehow, but all of Rhaegar's rubies were rubies. The wolf pommel on Longclaw has garnet eyes. That's because the wolf, representing Jon's Stark side, lacks fire. As per Tywin's quote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alia of the knife Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Since garnet is my birthstone, Im partial, but would it not be part of the same family? As for his name, it was said Ned named him, but why that name is more intriguing. There was a king of winter by the name of Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Snowfyre Chorus Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Since garnet is my birthstone, Im partial, but would it not be part of the same family? Could be. But Martin does seem to emphasize the distinction, rather than the similarity. Of course, every now and then, I think Martin is just riffing on root words, etymologies, and related images... and I do see that with the garnet, in particular. Garnet, and granite... pommels and pomegranates... apples, seeds, and "seeded apples". It could get interesting if you also consider the word carbuncle... which is an archaic word for a red garnet, and can also be traced back to the Latin word for "little coal," charcoal, or (perhaps) ember. Do embers "lack fire?" Maybe they do... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkSister1001 Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 I think Ned named him 'Jon' bc it's an inconspicuous name and could easily be assumed that it was after Jon Arryn; even if down deep he meant it to be after Jon Stark, the King of Winter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Snowfyre Chorus Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 I think Ned named him 'Jon' bc it's an inconspicuous name and could easily be assumed that it was after Jon Arryn; even if down deep he meant it to be after Jon Stark, the King of Winter. Or, it could be just Martin's way of saying "John Doe" ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taenqyrhae Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Maybe it's short for Aejon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkSister1001 Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Maybe it's short for Aejon. :cool4: Nice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Not Appearing Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Because there are so many threads on this subject and they're all meaty, I'll ask:Has it been discussed whether or not Melisandre knows R+L=J and, (since I assume the answer is yes), what's the general consensus on the subject?(I'm basing this on her shadowbaby comments made to Jon in ADWD.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearQueen87 Posted October 17, 2014 Author Share Posted October 17, 2014 Because there are so many threads on this subject and they're all meaty, I'll ask:Has it been discussed whether or not Melisandre knows R+L=J and, (since I assume the answer is yes), what's the general consensus on the subject?(I'm basing this on her shadowbaby comments made to Jon in ADWD.) I think Mel sees Jon as a very powerful ally; I think she detects strong magic in him. But if she had any suspicions that he was TPTWP by virtue of RLJ, I think we'd see her doubting Stannis more. At this point, I think Jon could have a flashing neon sign over his head saying "I am TPTWP" and Mel still wouldn't get it. What makes you think she does know? (can't remember the passage you're referring to) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Not Appearing Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 It's when she sort of steals Ghost and then tells Jon there's power in him and he should use it, that she'll teach him and when he asks how she says something about mating and what power could come from their coupling... then discusses shadows and what a big one he casts.I see that as a pet clear reference to shadowbaby making. I don't recall my shadowbaby lore well enough to know if that means she thinks he has kings blood because shadowbabies can only come from kings blood ... or if any man can potentially produce a shadow baby and she sees him as powerful so she wants to make one with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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