Quick question for people who believe Aegon=BF

[Chebyshov]

I've noticed a lot of people point to Tyrion's estimation of his age being around 15-16 as evidence that Aegon is an impostor. I'm wondering if most BF theorists think that "Faegon Blackfyre" is actually younger than the true Aegon VI Targaryen by a couple of years?

If so, do you guys also believe that Faegon doesn't know who he is? Because to me, he seems to legitimately think that he's Rhaegar's son. Yet if that's what he thinks, then how does he not know his own age? Did they tell him he was 4 on his second birthday, and then he just went with it from there? Sorry, I know it's minor and nitpicky, but I just thought about based on another thread, but didn't want to derail the conversation there.

[Alaynsa Starne]

I've noticed a lot of people point to Tyrion's estimation of his age being around 15-16 as evidence that Aegon is an impostor. I'm wondering if most BF theorists think that "Faegon Blackfyre" is actually younger than the true Aegon VI Targaryen by a couple of years?

If so, do you guys also believe that Faegon doesn't know who he is? Because to me, he seems to legitimately think that he's Rhaegar's son. Yet if that's what he thinks, then how does he not know his own age? Did they tell him he was 4 on his second birthday, and then he just went with it from there? Sorry, I know it's minor and nitpicky, but I just thought about based on another thread, but didn't want to derail the conversation there.

Maybe they lied to him about when the rebellion was?

[aryagonnakill#2]

If he is 14 then yes he's younger than he should be, however Tyrion under estimates Jons age back in AGOT so its not the best evidence. In my opinion he is portrayed as acting that age, but that's probably because of his sheltered upbringing.

It would be entirely possible to lie about someone's age tho, who would he compare to, in order to know they were wrong? Jon Con is another story tho, it seems impossible to tell someone a 2 year old is 4.

[Chebyshov]

If he is 14 then yes he's younger than he should be, however Tyrion under estimates Jons age back in AGOT so its not the best evidence. In my opinion he is portrayed as acting that age, but that's probably because of his sheltered upbringing.

It would be entirely possible to lie about someone's age tho, who would he compare to, in order to know they were wrong? Jon Con is another story tho, it seems impossible to tell someone a 2 year old is 4.

He wouldn't like, count birthdays? Maybe they lied to him about how calendars work though...

[Alaynsa Starne]

He wouldn't like, count birthdays? Maybe they lied to him about how calendars work though...

Yeah but how could he count birthdays he was too young to remember?

[aryagonnakill#2]

^ Exactly, if you told a 4 year old he was 6 he would believe it, no 1 really remembered the first 4 years, with the occasional really strong memory poking threw.

[Dr. Pepper]

Tyrion's estimation of Young Griff's age isn't all that useful since Tyrion doesn't often guess ages correctly. I prefer to just believe what JonCon and Aegon have to say about his age. He needed to be able to pass as five, iirc, when JonCon first picked him up. From there, he can just celebrate his birthday whenever the real Aegon's name day was. His memory of birthdays before that could have been whatever Illyrio made them to be.

[Chebyshov]

Really? I distinctly remember my 3rd birthday, but I guess I had siblings against which I could compare my own development. If Aegon truly is a BF who was raised in Illyrio's manse, that kind of is the equivalent of being raised under a rock.

Anyway, just a minor detail. Obviously JonCon's acceptance of Aegon is a bigger piece of the puzzle.

[aryagonnakill#2]

You remember your 3rd birthday, but you only know if was your 3rd because your parents and siblings told you that. If they had said it was your 5th it would still be the first birthday you remember and you'd have to take their word on it. And 4 is the standard age for remembering stuff permanently so remembering your 3rd wouldn't be the norm.

[Dr. Pepper]

I remember my 3rd birthday. But it's rather hard to say if I truly remember it or if al the photos and videos that documented that event are what has created the memory. And since I was three, I still didn't have any sort of grasp on the passage of time. I know it happened around the date of my actual birth anniversary, but that's only because I don't have any reason to mistrust my parents or the photos/videos commemorating the event. I'm not sure that Aegon would have had huge birthday bashes while he was living with Illyrio and they wouldn't have been documented with photographic evidence. Essentially, Illyrio could have told him anything. Perhaps when he turned three, they had a nice dinner. Then six months later they had another nice dinner and Illyrio told him he turned four. Then seven months later, he was told he turned five which conveniently linked to the real Aegon's date of birth. It's rather hard to fake the age of an infant or toddler, but gets a bit easier to fake it when they start reaching preschool age.

[Chebyshov]

I remember my 3rd birthday. But it's rather hard to say if I truly remember it or if al the photos and videos that documented that event are what has created the memory. And since I was three, I still didn't have any sort of grasp on the passage of time. I know it happened around the date of my actual birth anniversary, but that's only because I don't have any reason to mistrust my parents or the photos/videos commemorating the event. I'm not sure that Aegon would have had huge birthday bashes while he was living with Illyrio and they wouldn't have been documented with photographic evidence. Essentially, Illyrio could have told him anything. Perhaps when he turned three, they had a nice dinner. Then six months later they had another nice dinner and Illyrio told him he turned four. Then seven months later, he was told he turned five which conveniently linked to the real Aegon's date of birth. It's rather hard to fake the age of an infant or toddler, but gets a bit easier to fake it when they start reaching preschool age.

Makes sense (assuming, of course Aegon never interacted with other kids in his early childhood). And yes, Tyrion's an unreliable predictor of age, so for all we know Aegon truly is 18. I guess we won't know until he's chopped open and they count his rings.

[Chilli]

I think it's more difficult to know when a year has passed when there are no real seasons and Aegon is not going to school so he doesn't count vacations.

[Alaynsa Starne]

Makes sense (assuming, of course Aegon never interacted with other kids in his early childhood). And yes, Tyrion's an unreliable predictor of age, so for all we know Aegon truly is 18. I guess we won't know until he's chopped open and they count his rings.

I don't really have a dog in the fAegon fight, but it never occurred to me that Tyrion misinterpreting Aegon's age could be hint that he actually is a Targ. IIRC (and I may be misremembering the exact words) Bran describes Jon in his first PoV as small, quick, and graceful, which could indicate that he is shorter than average for his age and could lead some to believe that Jon is younger than he actually is, paralleling Aegon's entrance into the series as his brother. This is just a stray thought, though, and has probably been mentioned before.

[TallTyrion]

I've noticed a lot of people point to Tyrion's estimation of his age being around 15-16 as evidence that Aegon is an impostor. I'm wondering if most BF theorists think that "Faegon Blackfyre" is actually younger than the true Aegon VI Targaryen by a couple of years?

If so, do you guys also believe that Faegon doesn't know who he is? Because to me, he seems to legitimately think that he's Rhaegar's son. Yet if that's what he thinks, then how does he not know his own age? Did they tell him he was 4 on his second birthday, and then he just went with it from there? Sorry, I know it's minor and nitpicky, but I just thought about based on another thread, but didn't want to derail the conversation there.

I don't believe Aegon is real. However, I wouldn't use Tyrion getting his age wrong as evidence for that. That's an easy mistake to make. I recently mistook a 17 year old kid for 13. The real Aegon should be 18 I believe, he was born in 282AC and it's now 300 AC, so confusing a 18 year old for 16 is pretty meaningless.

As for wether or not Young Griif knows who he is remains unclear. He gives the impression that he believes himself to be Rhaegar's son. When Tyrion figures it all out on the boat Young Griff shouts "He knows who I am" so that seems to indicate he believes himself to be for real. However, we don't see a whole lot of Young Griff so it's hard to tell.

If he is fake and is actually 16 I don't think it would be that hard to deceive a kid into thinking he's older than he actually is. There's a reason it's easy for some one like me to easily reference my childhood and how old I was when certain things happened. I live in a world with graded schooling and regular season changes. Take those two things away, left to my own devices, I wouldn't have a clue how old I was when certain things happened in my life.

[In A Coat of Gold]

JonCon knows how old Aegon is, and is a naturally suspicious and surly guy. It must have taken some convincing for him to believe in toddler Aegon.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

Really? I distinctly remember my 3rd birthday, but I guess I had siblings against which I could compare my own development. If Aegon truly is a BF who was raised in Illyrio's manse, that kind of is the equivalent of being raised under a rock.

Anyway, just a minor detail. Obviously JonCon's acceptance of Aegon is a bigger piece of the puzzle.

Extremely intelligent people can often remember farther back in their lives than others can. Unforunately we don't know if Aegon is more intelligent than average, so no clue on memories. Plus not having his POV, we don't get his memories anyway.

[Fae Boleyn]

Tyrion botched Blue Aegon's age, plain and simple. Assuming Blue Aegon is fake, he must have been very close to the true Aegon's age to fool JonCon. (Which imo is one of the holes in the Blackfyre theory - they just got that lucky? - though if he's a random Valyrian looking kid it's less of a hole.)

[Lady Blizzardborn]

Tyrion botched Blue Aegon's age, plain and simple. Assuming Blue Aegon is fake, he must have been very close to the true Aegon's age to fool JonCon. (Which imo is one of the holes in the Blackfyre theory - they just got that lucky? - though if he's a random Valyrian looking kid it's less of a hole.)

I believe Aegon is a red herring to hide the actual Blackfyre pretender.

Sadly, it's not really that hard to find a kid with Valyrian coloring in places like Lys. And Westeros--Aegon IV really got around.

[corbon]

I've noticed a lot of people point to Tyrion's estimation of his age being around 15-16 as evidence that Aegon is an impostor. I'm wondering if most BF theorists think that "Faegon Blackfyre" is actually younger than the true Aegon VI Targaryen by a couple of years?

If so, do you guys also believe that Faegon doesn't know who he is? Because to me, he seems to legitimately think that he's Rhaegar's son. Yet if that's what he thinks, then how does he not know his own age? Did they tell him he was 4 on his second birthday, and then he just went with it from there? Sorry, I know it's minor and nitpicky, but I just thought about based on another thread, but didn't want to derail the conversation there.

Its just a bad argument by those people thats all. Tyrion is bad at ages and teenage boys are difficult to guess accurately unless you know them for a while because development stages diffre widely around that age.

Almost as difficult to guess as the age of a middle-aged woman. ;)

That said, i don;t see why it would be hard to fool a small child of his age.

However...

JonCon knows how old Aegon is, and is a naturally suspicious and surly guy. It must have taken some convincing for him to believe in toddler Aegon.

This. It requires too great a suspension of disbelief to assume that JonCon believed a 3 year old was a 5 year old. Remember Rhaegar was a precocious child and talented at everything and JonCon would expect similar from Rhaegars son. A large 3 year old might plausibly be passed off as a small, 'backward' 5 year old to someone who doesn't know kids at all, but no way that a 3 year old is going to pass as a precocious 5 year old.

Much simpler to just go with the fact we already know Tyrion is bad at ages (he thought 14 year old Jon was 12) and that his guess of 16 simply isn't accurate.

So all in all, Tyrion's age guess adds nothing for or against the fAegon argument, at least factually. But that doesn't stop people who haven't thought it through very well trying to use it as a support for their preferred theory.

[Ko Rakharo]

Do we have enough info on the Velaryons and Celtigars to be sure there are no younger brothers with lost bastards or anything of the like? They're as Valyrian as most late Targs, especially the Velaryons who kept intermarrying with the Targaryens for generations.