Northbound3.0 Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Well, the question of whether it will be considered a "classic," hinges on one important factor. Doesn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegaTechPC Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 I don't think there is any question that ASOIAF will go down as one of the preeminent classics of our time, very much like LOTR. In fact, given enough time it may even eclipse LOTR in terms of significance but of course that all presupposes that the rest of the series, including the all-important ending, remain up the the immense standards GRRM has maintained throughout the series thus far. I know many people have said that there has been a drop-off in quality writing over the last two books and I think that is true to a minor extent but the worst of Feast and Dance is still much better than most everything else in the genre. I really do have faith that Martin has a very definitive and well planned ending in mind and that Winds and Dream will be right back at the high level of Storm. Let me say that if the last two installments are disappointing (or if he fails to finish the series *shudder*) then the overall impact of the series will go up in smoke. I would lose my mind if he ruined the series with the final book on the scale that Paolini ruined The Inheritance Cycle with Inheritance (I know, I know, most people here probably hated that whole series anyway but I loved it right up to the last book). The show I think is in a similar position as the books to be honest. It is commonly referred to as the finest series on TV, right up there with Breaking Bad, Sopranos, Rome, etc and I don't see that diminishing over time particularly if the ending is handled correctly. In fact I think we have less to worry about in terms of the show not finishing as GRRM has given D&D the overall ending so if he doesn't finish the books we at least will get an ending for the show, even if its not exactly what Martin came up with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgul-Blade Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 ASOIAF will definitely be remembered as a classic. There are many other fantasy series that people could argue are better, but ASOIAF's popularity amongst the non-fantasy crowd puts it over the top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChillyPolly Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 ASOIAF will definitely be remembered as a classic. At least until tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ummester Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 I know many people have said that there has been a drop-off in quality writing over the last two books and I think that is true to a minor extent but the worst of Feast and Dance is still much better than most everything else in the genre. I don't notice a drop off in writing quality in Feast but I do notice a slower pace than ASoS. In fact, the end of ASoS felt more rushed to me than anything else. I also think that the introduction of new characters and POVs in Feast would have been off-putting to some, because they want to know how the characters they are invested in are progressing. Very little in Feast doesn't tie into characters and concepts introduced way back in GoTs, however. Feast is very much an after the fight book, licking the wounds after the first round, kind of thing. I'm lucky though - I get to read them all in quick succession, all as little parts of a larger universe - I imagine it would have been heartbreaking for Dany, Jon or Tyrion fans waiting 5 years for Feast and getting nothing and then having to wait another 6. One thing I don't get about GRRM. He's done it, he has us invested in his universe - what is he afraid of? I do get that artists and writers are often their own worst critics and that they can be afraid of not living up to their own expectations, but GRRM should be aware of that flaw, even if it exists in himself - why does writing the end he always had planned seem like it is hard for him? I don't buy the whole slow writer thing either - yea, some are faster than others but when you are in the zone, the words flow. I guess it worries me that he is plaguing himself with self doubt as he appoaches the end and it may have an impact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Hempflower Knight Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Well, If for some horrible reason the series does not get finished, please, PLEASE, do not hire some 3rd rate genre hack to finish based on notes. Im not going to mention names, but Brandon Sanderson destroyed robert jordans already weakened legacy. Well, i guess i named names. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonclawFury Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 George RR Martin might not have been in the zone to begin with. Main Plotlines have slowed to a crawl for 10 years. Sadly, I am one of those who have been waiting over 10 years for the next Major Storyline Push. Though I honestly forget about it and moved on with my life for most of those years. Anyways, the Song of Ice and Fire and the Game of Thrones both fulfill a Cultural Niche which has not been fulfilled beforehand. There hasn't been many other massive appeal Low Fantasy Style works in the epic scale I know of. Both in Literature and in TV/Movies there has been no equal that I know of in terms of success. It has multitudes of subversions and deconstructions of the now Standard Medieval European Fantasy. However, the LOTR series will still inevitably eclipse it due to being the defining example of High Fantasy, with so many works being made with inspiration by it, it practically made a Genre viable. And with that Genre, the Deconstructions of that same Genre. The fact that Middle-Earth has a special "something" which makes its True Core Audience worship like it was literally the Bible also helps.Though due to the reality I'M not part of it's "True Core Audience", I admit I don't enjoy Middle-Earth as much as may be expected. Though my knowledge of the inner workings of Arda can compete with all but the literal Professional Studiers of JRR Tolkien's work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HosteenOsteen Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 I think an unquestionable classic. Will it always be as 'hot' ni the media as it is now--no, nothing is, but it;s going to be around in fifty, a hundred years, people will still be reading and discussing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hangover of the Morning Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Depends if it is finished and if the last two books are any good. AFfC/ADwD lowered the chances heavily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jo cool Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 I will always praise Tolkien for his incredible world-building craft and sheer creativity (and The Silmarillion = the most beautiful piece of literature I've read so far), and GRRM for the complexity, trope-breaking and character development. Even though Lotr (+ associated books) and Asoiaf are quite different works indeed, I think they do share some unifying themes (e.g. coming of age, honor, appearance means nothing, loyalty to a cause/camp, sense of belonging and fellowship^^, etc.) that appeal to us in a timeless and universal manner. Hopefully asoiaf will be remembered as a classic series, it has what it takes imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrienneofQarth Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 I don't think there is any question that ASOIAF will go down as one of the preeminent classics of our time, very much like LOTR. In fact, given enough time it may even eclipse LOTR in terms of significance but of course that all presupposes that the rest of the series, including the all-important ending, remain up the the immense standards GRRM has maintained throughout the series thus far. I don't think the two authors should be seen in competition, or 'eclipses'; both are simply milestones in the development of the same genre. JRRT reflected the values of his time, GRRM, the values of ours -, which is why people today tend to find Asoiaf more accessible. Both will be seen as landmark fantasy works. The question is whether Asoiaf will be seen as a landmark novel in the mainstream of writing - and, as I think we have all concluded, that depends entirely on the quality of the remaining books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elessar Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 The book series, without a doubt. The TV show, doubtful. Lots of people watching a train wreck does not make it a "good" train wreck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Patrek M Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 I think it will certainly be taught in Lit. classes (in some colleges, it's already happening), especially in regards to character development, dismantling the classic hero's journey, and the concept of good and evil being quite a grey area. That's the thing that drew me to it as a 15 year old back in 2002. The good and the just don't always come out on top simply because they're good and just, which I think is a very important aspect to the whole mythos of Martin's universe. In a way it reminds me of Thomas Hobbes: "the life of man, solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short". What did the Hound say in the show? "Your friend is dead, and Trant's not. Because Trant had armor, and a big fucking sword." That pretty much sums up the essence of the entire series. For me, at least. We hope that our favorite characters will get the justice they deserve, but...you never know what's lurking on the next page. It may seem grim, but it makes the good things that happen in the book that much sweeter, even if they are few and far between. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagLover Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 I remember once a literary reviewer for one of the major newspapers describing the Lord of the Rings as the only work of literature most fans of the fantasy genre will read. I think to dismiss it as simply the straight forward fight between good and evil means you have not appreciated all the themes Tolkein brought into his work. Many writers since have copied its elves and dwarves, or its theme of decline, or the lament for a lost ideal in an age of industrialisation but few have come even close to is quality. GRRM has taken a completely fresh approach and while he may have been influenced by Tolkein it is hard (except perhaps in the COTF) to see any elements of Tolkein being copied into his work. In its originality, plotting, depth of the world building, quality of the writing and brilliant characterisation of even secondary characters ASOIAF is the best written fantasy saga in my opinion since LOTR (I don't want to compare them as they are too different), as such I believe it will stand the test of time with one caveat. An unfinished work that ends the story in many stagnant holding patterns is unlikely to be considered one of the greats. To take its rightful place ASOIAF needs to be finished. As for the quality of the series. I am in two minds I think with better writing, better acting at times, and a bit more money for some scenes it could be so much more and yet I do prefer it to virtually anything else (I prefer it to the Sopranos and BSG to name two examples). I still think Breaking Bad is better but BB had a complete arc and the show doesn't have that. The show's greatest challenge lies ahead as they start to have to write so much more of the plot as they condense down GRRM's work and then move on into unchartered territory with only notes to guide them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagLover Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Well, If for some horrible reason the series does not get finished, please, PLEASE, do not hire some 3rd rate genre hack to finish based on notes. Im not going to mention names, but Brandon Sanderson destroyed robert jordans already weakened legacy. Well, i guess i named names. Brandon Sanderson is a good rather than great writer but I thought he did a decent job finishing off the WOT series. Those three books were certainly better than anything Jordon had written since book 6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChillyPolly Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Well, the question of whether it will be considered a "classic," hinges on one important factor. Doesn't it? Hush. One must not speak of such things! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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