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Lord Varys

New TWoIaF excerpt from the App [spoiler]

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So this confirms that the Starks were a monumental superpower of Westeros before the Andals came. Where the Vale was ruled by what looks like a dozen or more petty kings, the Starks ruled the entire North by the time the Andals started crossing the Narrow Sea.

If the Andals had not come, one wonders how the Stark power would have grown in a southerly direction over the centuries to come.

In today's terms, each of the Vale petty kings may have been able to raise say 3000 men, while the Stark Kings could easily send 30,000 men against any one petty king of the South.

Might they have conquered all of Westeros, if not for the coming of the Andals?

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Is there any info on religion? Royce and Corbray families - they follow the 7,right?

Nothing much. The Corbrays are confirmed to come from Andalos, so they definitely follow the seven. It's still a mystery as to what religion the modern Royces follow. Could be the Old Gods, The Seven, or both.

On a side note, this would confirm that the Starks were not against marrying Andals since Cregan had a Corbray wife. Unless Cregan was an untraditional Stark that is, but the small info we have on him suggest that he was as close to a King of Winter as it gets.

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Agreed, I definitely think southern expansion was an aim and after the Neck was conquered, it would be all to easy. The Vale was around 10 petty kings, and of equal strength to the Starks, but we all know how good an ally fellow petty kings make, so Starks would just hop from house to house conquering. I wonder if many First Men houses held the Starks in a very high regard, but that all depends on the state of the other regions. Just because the Vale was divided 6000 years ago doesn't mean the Gardeners hadn't unified the Reach, and gone up against the Starks. By the time of Aegons Conquest all petty kings were gone, so we know that unification did occur but not when. So I'm not sure.


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Yeah. It will be interesting to learn how the Valyrian colonies expanded. First throughout the land, up/around the Rhoyne (Norvos/Qohor), or went they around the coastline first, and founded Myr, Pentos, and Lorath before expanding inland? Tyrosh, and Lys should be among the oldest, some time after Volantis.

As to the Andals: Andalos should have been some sort of nation, and surely some clans/bands would have tried to fight back, and if they had (somewhat) rich lands, they would have only gone after they had realized that you really, really should not provoke (or resist) the dragons.

The story only covers the Vale - some other Andals may have already started to land farther in the North, and especially down in the Stormlands, and down at Crackclaw Point/KL, which is really close to where Pentos lies to today.

The Roman Empire expanded along the coasts of the Mediterranean before expanding inland into Gaul (the historical parallel for the Rhoynish). Especially since travel be sea is faster than travel by land.

One battle with dragons and/or fallen Andal kingdom would probably be all it took to send a message. They likely landed in other areas in southern Westeros like probably the Bay of Crabs and the Crowlands area. KL was supposedly the place where a number of kings landed.

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Great stuff! A bit disappointed that we have yet another "hidden path" victory here though. I mean, really? After Robb and Daeron I? Aren't there other clever military tactics that could be borrowed from history? Heck, Arryn may have assembled a group of best climbers and scaled some cliffs that were generally supposed to be impossible, but which he knew well being a local, etc.

The whole stuff with the Andals initially serving various First Men kings reminds me of Anglo-Saxon migration to /invasion of Britain. Only, curiously, many First Men Houses managed to remain in power - or, possibly, victorious Andals chose to keep their names after taking over and marrying their women. Previously, I used to think that the First Men had been pushed out into the mountains and became wildlings, again, largely like Celts in Britain.

Also, Andals already having Valyrian steel makes me more convinced than ever that Andal invasion was more recent than Westerosi myths would have us believe. I can't wait for Valyrian history chapters, because they are likely to have the most accurate chronology.

Re: only North being united, didn't we hear in the "History of the Westerlands" reading that the West had also largely united prior to the Andal invasion? Which is why the whole giving Andals lands and intermarrying with them worked out better for the Lannisters than for House Shett of Gulltown ;).

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IIRC the Westerlands were still quite divided. A Lannister king had to fight against 3 different kings at once, and heaps of Andal houses were founded, so other houses would have been lost. I do think the Lannisters were powerful, but they had no monopoly over the land, just wealth.


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Really surprised to hear about Lady Forlorn; we know Ice, Longclaw, and Brightroar were only acquired fairly shortly before the doom, so it seems strange that Lady Forlorn is 2,000+ years old.



Still great to read, and confirms that the Royces and Redforts (among others) were kings.


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I will say that "Valyrian steel" should have been removed from the description of Lady Forlorn. Not sure what happened there, but in any case, ignore it.

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I will say that "Valyrian steel" should have been removed from the description of Lady Forlorn. Not sure what happened there, but in any case, ignore it.

Are you saying that Lady Forlorn isn't Valyrian Steel and is something else? (Perhaps more like Dawn?)

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Let us make it clear: Were there VS weapons during the Andal invasion?



I don't think whether I can buy that.



Lady Forlorn of old might be normal steel. The current Lady Forlorn is a VS sword with an ancient name, just like in the case of Ice.


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I also question the utter lack of steel weapons among the First Men. There must have been some spread of technology across the Narrow Sea in the preceding centuries.

If every normal Andal knight had a steel sword, then surely the King of Winter or of Oldtown or Casterly Rock could pay him a vast fortune for his sword. More gold than this common Andal knight would otherwise see in his lifetime. Enough for him to buy 10 or 100 replacement swords in Andalos.

So almost certainly the nobles among the First Men would have had steel swords, even while the average warrior had to make do with bronze.

Much like the prevalence of Valyrian steel among the nobility today, only not as scarce.

Also, I imagine the North would have learned ironworking technology within a century or two after the Andal invasion. Thus levelling the technology playing field for their common soldiers as well.

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On Ice:

The name it bore was older still, a legacy from the age of heroes, when the Starks were Kings in the North.

Draw your own conclusions. :)

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I found very interesting seeing the list of first men fouses that united under Robar Royce to fight the Andals: Royces, Redforts, Hunters, Belmore and Coldwater.



Every one of these houses united under the leadership of Yohn Royce in AFFC as the Lords Declarant. This puts their alliance in another perspective, I think, and it could be seen as a threat to the Arryn dominance.



Three of the Lords Declarant come from houses of Andal origins: Symond Templeton, Anya Waynwood and Lyn Corbray. Perhaps not surprisingly, two of those three are the ones who undermine the alliance: Lyn was secretly in league with Littlefinger to begin with, and Ayna Waynwood changes sides and attends Lord Corbray's mariage in Gultown.

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