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Salafi Stannis

R+L=J v.111

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Reference guide

The Tower of the Hand has an excellent analysis of this theory:
Jon Snow's Parents

And Westeros' Citadel also provides a summary:
Jon Snow's Parents

A Wiki of Ice and Fire:
Jon Snow Theories

Frequently Asked Questions:

How can Jon be a Targaryen if he has a burned hand?
Targaryens are not immune to fire. Aerion Brightflame died drinking wildfire. Aegon V and his son Duncan are thought to have died in a fire-related event at Summerhall. Rhaenyra was eaten by Aegon II's dragon, presumably roasted by fire before the dragon took a bite. Viserys died when he was crowned with molten gold. Dany suffered burns from the fire pit incident at the end of A Dance with Dragons. Finally, the author has stated outright that Targaryens are not immune to fire. Jon's burned hand does not mean he is ineligible to be part Targaryen. For more information about the myth of Targaryen fire immunity, see this thread.

How can Jon be a Targ if he doesn't have silver hair and purple eyes?
Not all Targaryens had the typical Valyrian look. Alysanne had blue eyes. Baelor Breakspear and his son(s) had the Dornish look. Some of the Great Bastards did not have typical Valyrian features. Jon's own half-sister Rhaenys had her mother's Dornish look.

If Jon isn't Ned's son, then why does he look so much like him?

Much is made over the fact that Arya looks like Lyanna, and Jon looks like Arya. Ned and Lyanna shared similar looks.

How can Jon be half-Targ if he has a direwolf?
Ned's trueborn children are half Stark and half Tully. Being half Tully didn't prevent them from having a direwolf so there is no reason to think being half Targaryen would prevent Jon from having a direwolf. If Lyanna is his mother, then he's still half Stark. Furthermore, there is already a character who is half Targaryen and half blood of the First Men and was a skinchanger: Bloodraven.

Since Rhaegar was already married, wouldn't Jon still be a bastard?
The evidence that Jon is legitimate is that Targaryens have a history of polygamous marriages which makes it a possibility that Rhaegar had two wives. Three Kingsguards were present at the Tower of Joy when Ned arrived. Even after Ned said that Aerys, Rhaegar and Aegon were dead and Viserys had fled to Dragonstone, the Kingsguard opted to stay at the Tower of Joy stating they were obeying their Kingsguard vow. The heart of a Kingsguard's vow is to protect the king. With Aerys, Rhaegar and Aegon dead, the new king would have been Viserys, unless Lyanna's child was legitimate making him the new king of the Targaryen dynasty. For a comprehensive analysis of Jon's legitimacy, see the detailed explanations in the two linked articles.


But polygamy hadn't been practiced in centuries, is it still even legal?
The practice was never made illegal and there may have been some less prominent examples after Maegor, as stated in this SSM. Furthermore, Jorah suggests it to Dany as a viable option.

Weren't the Kingsguard at Tower of Joy on the basis of an order from Aerys, to guard Lyanna as a hostage?
Aerys was sane enough to realize how taking someone hostage works even at the end of the Rebellion, and he would hardly miss the opportunity to bring Ned and Robert in line any time after the situation started to look really serious. Furthermore, regardless of on whose order the Kingsguard might have stayed at Tower of Joy, they would still be in dereliction of their duty to guard the new king.


This theory is too obvious and too many people believe it to be fact. How can it be true?
The theory is not obvious to the majority of readers. Some will get it on first read, most will not. Keep in mind that readers who go to online fan forums, such as this one, represent a very small minority of the A Song of Ice and Fire readership. Also, A Game of Thrones has been out since 1996. That's more than 18 years of readers being able to piece together this mystery.

Why doesn't Ned ever think about Lyanna being Jon's mother
?
Ned doesn't think about anyone as being his mother. He says the name 'Wylla' to Robert, but does not actively think that Wylla is the mother. He also doesn't think of Jon as his son. There are numerous mysteries in the series, and Jon's parentage is one of those. If Ned thought about Jon being Lyanna's son, it would not be a mystery.

Why should we care who Jon's parents are? Will Jon care? Who cares if he's legitimate?
Once one accepts that the evidence is conclusive and that Jon's parents are Rhaegar and Lyanna and that he is most probably legitimate, these become the important questions.

Since this theory has been refined so well, will Martin change the outcome of the story to surprise his fans?
No, he said he won't change the outcome of the story only because some people have put together all the clues and solved the puzzle.

Previous editions:

Please click on the spoiler below to reveal links to all previous editions of this thread

Lyanna + Rhaegar = Jon Thread” (thread one)

Lyanna + Rhaegar = Jon Thread” (thread two)

The Lyanna + Rhaegar = Jon thread (Part III)” (thread three)

The Lyanna + Rhaegar = Jon thread (Part IV)” (thread four)

The Lyanna + Rhaegar = Jon Thread (Part V)” (thread five)

The Lyanna + Rhaegar = Jon Thread (Part VI)” (thread six)

The Rhaegar + Lyanna = Jon Thread Part VII” (thread seven)

The Rhaegar + Lyanna = Jon thread, Part VIII” (thread eight)

The Rhaegar + Lyanna = Jon thread, Part IX” (thread nine)

The Rhaegar + Lyanna =Jon Thread, Part X”(thread ten)

The R+L=J thread, part XI” (thread eleven)

The R+L=J thread, part XII” (thread twelve)

R+L=J Part XXIII” (thread thirteen)

R+L=J Part XXIV” (thread fourteen)

R+L=J XXV” (thread fifteen)

R+L=J v.16” (thread sixteen)

R+L=J v.17” (thread seventeen)

R+L=J v.18” (thread eighteen)

R+L=J v.19” (thread nineteen)

R+L=J v.20” (thread twenty)

R+L=J v.21” (thread twenty-one)

R+L=J v.22” (thread twenty-two)

R+L=J v.22a” (thread twenty-two (a))

R+L=J v.23” (thread twenty-three)

R+L=J v.24” (thread twenty-four)

R+L=J v.25” (thread twenty-five)

R+L=J v.26” (thread twenty-six)

R+L=J v.27” (thread twenty-seven)

R+L=J v.28” (thread twenty-eight)

R+L=J v.29” (thread twenty-nine)

R+L=J v.30” (thread thirty)

R+L=J v.31” (thread thirty-one)

R+L=J v.32” (thread thirty-two)

R+L=J v.33” (thread thirty-three)

R+L=J v.34” (thread thirty-four)

R+L=J v.35” (thread thirty-five)

R+L=J v.36” (thread thirty-six)

R+L=J v.37” (thread thirty-seven)

R+L=J v.38” (thread thirty-eight)

R+L=J v.39” (thread thirty-nine)

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R+L=J v.40" (thread forty)

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R+L=J v.41" (thread forty-one)

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R+L=J v.42" (thread forty-two)

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R+L=J v.43" (thread forty-three)

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R+L=J v.44" (thread forty-four)

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R+L=J v.45" (thread forty-five)

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R+L=J v.46" (thread forty-six)

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R+L=J v.47" (thread forty-seven)

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R+L=J v.48" (thread forty-eight)

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R+L=J v.49" (thread forty-nine)

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R+L=J v.50" (thread fifty)

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R+L=J v.51" (thread fifty-one)

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R+L=J v.52" (thread fifty-two)

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R+L=J v.53" (thread fifty-three)

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R+L=J v.54" (thread fifty-four)

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R+L=J v.55" (thread fifty-five)

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R+L=J v.56" (thread fifty-six)

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R+L=J v.57" (thread fifty-seven)

"R+L=J v.58" (thread fifty-eight)

"R+L=J v.59" (thread fifty-nine)

"R+L=J v.60" (thread sixty)

"R+L=J v.61" (thread sixty-one)

"R+L=J v.62" (thread sixty-two)

"R+L=J v.63" (thread sixty-three)

"R+L=J v.64" (thread sixty-four)

"R+L=J v.65" (thread sixty-five)

"R+L=J v.66" (thread sixty-six)

"R+L=J v.67" (thread sixty-seven)

"R+L=J v.68" (thread sixty-eight)

"R+L=J v.69" (thread sixty-nine)

"R+L=J v.70" (thread seventy)

"R+L=J v.71" (thread seventy-one)

"R+L=J v.72" (thread seventy-two)

"R+L=J v.73" (thread seventy-three)

"R+L=J v.74" (thread seventy-four)

"R+L=J v.75" (thread seventy-five)

"R+L=J v.76" (thread seventy-six)

"R+L=J v.77" (thread seventy-seven)

"R+L=J v.78" (thread seventy-eight)

"R+L=J v.79" (thread seventy-nine)

"R+L=J v.80" (thread eighty)

"R+L=J v.81" (thread eighty-one)

"R+L=J v.82" (thread eighty-two)

"R+L=J v.83" (thread eighty-three)

"R+L=J v.84" (thread eighty-four)

"R+L=J v.85" (thread eighty-five)

"R+L=J v.86" (thread eighty-six)

"R+L=J v.87" (thread eighty-seven)

"R+L=J v.88" (thread eighty-eight)

"R+L=J v.89" (thread eighty-nine)

"R+L=J v.90" (thread ninety)

"R+L=J v.91" (thread ninety-one)

"R+L=J v.92" (thread ninety-two)

"R+L=J v.93" (thread ninety-three)

"R+L=J v.94" (thread ninety-four)

"R+L=J v.95" (thread ninety-five)

"R+L=J v.96" (thread ninety-six)

"R+L=J v. 97" (thread ninety-seven)

"R+L=J v. 98" (thread ninety-eight)

"R+L=J v. 99" (thread ninety-nine)

"R+L =J v.100" (thread one hundred)

"R+L =J v.101" (thread one hundred one)

"R+L =J v.102" (thread one hundred two)

"R+L =J v.103" (thread one hundred three)

"R+L=J v.104" (thread one hundred four)

"R+L=J v.105" (thread one hundred five)

"R+L=J v.106" (thread one hundred six)

"R+L=J v.107" (thread one hundred seven)

"R+L=J v. 108" (thread one hundred eight)

"R+L=J v. 109" (thread one hundred nine)

"R+L=J v. 110" (thread one hundred ten)

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I responded to sj4iy at the end of the last thread not knowing I was in dead space between threads.

The Ned's association with blue and death is the color of the sky in his fever dream. "A storm of rose petals blew across a blood-streaked sky, as blue as the eyes of death." I think this is what BQ87 was going after. If not... (ETA - I see I was late to the party on that quote)

As to Jon becoming the new Night King well, we don't know much about the Night King of lore. He was found to be sacrificing to the Others after he was brought down. So what made the Stark and Joramun take him out of the picture? We know he brought a white woman from across the wall to be his queen. (As far as Old Nan's tale goes)

It seems to me he was bringing undesirables, or at least unsanctioned parties, across the wall to dwell on the south side. We do not know his true purpose in whatever he was doing.

Jon recently brought the Wildlings across the wall for the greater good and is stabbed for his efforts. Who knows what tales will be told on the why such actions were taken against the Watch's leader? Possibly he was aiding the enemy in their plight? Maybe

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I responded to sj4iy at the end of the last thread not knowing I was in dead space between threads.

The Ned's association with blue and death is the color of the sky in his fever dream. "A storm of rose petals blew across a blood-streaked sky, as blue as the eyes of death." I think this is what BQ87 was going after. If not... (ETA - I see I was late to the party on that quote)

As to Jon becoming the new Night King well, we don't know much about the Night King of lore. He was found to be sacrificing to the Others after he was brought down. So what made the Stark and Joramun take him out of the picture? We know he brought a white woman from across the wall to be his queen. (As far as Old Nan's tale goes)

It seems to me he was bringing undesirables, or at least unsanctioned parties, across the wall to dwell on the south side. We do not know his true purpose in whatever he was doing.

Jon recently brought the Wildlings across the wall for the greater good and is stabbed for his efforts. Who knows what tales will be told on the why such actions were taken against the Watch's leader? Possibly he was aiding the enemy in their plight? Maybe

There was actually a great video made by the show about the Night's King:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2TQHjo3xzQ

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Wow...she's perfect.

And she looks enough like Jon Snow to make it completely believable.

Just.... wow...... No wonder he turned away from Elia....

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Yeah, my only problem with Kit is the hair, because I think its supposed to be straight, but I always thought she was perfect though not as fair skinned.

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Yeah, my only problem with Kit is the hair, because I think its supposed to be straight, but I always thought she was perfect though not as fair skinned.

I've never really been bothered by the way the actors look vs the way their characters are described unless their physical appearance is important to their character, ie: Tyrion or Brienne. I think Kit is the perfect Jon Snow, because his attitude is right. His looks are important only to a point, and they are very malleable in the show universe.

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I've never really been bothered by the way the actors look vs the way their characters are described unless their physical appearance is important to their character, ie: Tyrion or Brienne. I think Kit is the perfect Jon Snow, because his attitude is right. His looks are important only to a point, and they are very malleable in the show universe.

True, I suppose I get stuck on the details, because Charlize Theron is more Cersei to me.

In appearance, Ben Barnes, (prince Caspian), is more Jon Snow in my head.

http://www.impawards.com/2008/chronicles_of_narnia_prince_caspian_ver4_xlg.html

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No, too robust.Yustman is actually 5'9

You can be tall and be fragile. Also, Rhaegar was quite tall, IICR.

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As someone who is 5'2....I couldn't even get to 5'9 in a pair of heels.


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As well as my dad. He was 6'4.

He HATED buying clothes.

At least I'm fat (330 pounds). Once you start getting into that size, they seem to all assume you're fat too. My best friend is 6'5", and weighs about 160 pounds. He has a hard time buying clothes.

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In the recent GRRM interview where he talked about WOIAF book (which was live streamed), towards the end, the oft-repeated question and mentioned that GRRM asked D&D one question (to see if they carefully read the book). Who was Jon's mother?



GRRM: D&D passed with flying colors.



To me, this is another GRRM confirmation again that D&D answered correctly, and there's no way the two (who are careful readers themselves) would've guessed any other woman other than Lyanna.



Note: GRRM and D&D met at a hotel in California in 2006 to pitch the idea of producing a show based on the adaptation/inspiration of ASOIAF.



This may be redundant in R+L=J thread, but it goes without saying, it's another point of strength for reference.

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