Jump to content

Ran on TWoIaF and more|Reddit AMA


Moondancer

Recommended Posts

I couldn't even tell you who came up with Mance is Rhaegar, truthfully, I was just trying to find something that was outlandish, but not debunked. I wasn't trying to talk about a third party, just mentioning a questionable theory that I happened to remember. Contrary to some popular opinion around here, not all of us read every outlandish bit of theorizing or opinion that has managed to grace the forums with it's presence. I do think it is noteworthy, though, that the writers seemed comfortable outing some of these ideas as big NOs. I do think it's because of GRRM himself that many theories, believable or otherwise, manage to last. The author seems to hold onto too many of the mysteries, IMO, and it leads to a lot of conjecture. We still have things like Tywin and Shae up in the air, for example, GRRM recently noting in an interview that there could be more to the situation that it first appeared. Leaving too much dangling for too long leads to much over theorizing, I think. As much as what is outed as disliked by the writers, or NOs, it's also interesting to note that they like the idea of Ashara is Quaithe, but still only call it a theory.

ETA: Also, I can't help but picture a big ole laugh fest between GRRM and Ran and Linda at some of these theories, though. Then again, maybe that just speaks about my own enjoyment of a good laugh.

Good luck getting your hands on the book soon, though. I wish you well.

OK, I mean, the problem I am having with this is that Ran didn't debunk anything. GRRM has. As I have said, the issue of some of those theories is not that they are debunked by Ran, they are debunked by books themselves and GRRM himself. I mean, HS=HR is debunked with SSM, not this conversation, and I would ask people to realize that. I agree with Ran on some notes, but I consider it his opinion, not fact of life.

As third-party, I meant Ran...

Oh, we all laugh from time to time... I mean HS=HR is the most popular theory of the year...

And, thank you... I will get it sooner rather than later.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Its an unnecessary and bare theory. Never understood why so many believe it tbh.

Means, motive, and opportunity. All three given without any ludicrous impracticality. It is a simple and nifty theory unlike many others.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oberyn may have had a motive for a poisoning attempt, but opportunity? Most likely not. If Tywin was stupid enough to allow the Martells to bribe his cooks and servants he would be pretty stupid.

Well, there is always doing it yourself. There has been that cozy dinner the 3 judges were having together, and judging by the precautions taken by Doran's maester and bodyguard around Tyene, there are many discreet ways to administer poison. And Oberyn had been Tyene's teacher, so...

Varys could have done it, but why would he, really? He is good with a crossbow and has access to the Hand's bedchamber...

The problem is, Varys let Tyrion use that secret door. If Tyrion had failed to kill Tywin, which was quite possible and even likely, then Tywin would have become aware of the secret passages and would have taken precautions to close that security hole. Alerted Tywin would have been very difficult for Varys to kill, which, as per his own diatribe to Kevan, would have thrown a huge monkey wrench into his plans.

I mean, if Varys had no way to make sure that Tywin died regardless of Tyrion's actions, then it was massively stupid of him to let Tyrion climb that ladder. Yet, he didn't argue enough for me to believe that he had been honestly trying to hold Tyrion back. There had to be some plan B. If not poison, then what? Shae?! She doesn't strike me as a reliable assassin.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Means, motive, and opportunity. All three given without any ludicrous impracticality. It is a simple and nifty theory unlike many others.

Means I'll give you. Motive no. He wanted Tywin dead, but not immediately. He wanted to undo the mans work, not have him die without realizing who's responsoble for it. Opprtunity, we'll there is the dinner, but I don't believe in his motive.

And again, it adds nothing to the story. If anything it lessens Tyrion's murder of Tywin, because the man was going to die anyway.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

OK, I mean, the problem I am having with this is that Ran didn't debunk anything. GRRM has. As I have said, the issue of some of those theories is not that they are debunked by Ran, they are debunked by books themselves and GRRM himself. I mean, HS=HR is debunked with SSM, not this conversation, and I would ask people to realize that. I agree with Ran on some notes, but I consider it his opinion, not fact of life.

As third-party, I meant Ran...

Oh, we all laugh from time to time... I mean HS=HR is the most popular theory of the year...

And, thank you... I will get it sooner rather than later.

You can consider many things not debunked, if you want, for me..........I'm going with most of the things listed are 99% unlikely to be true. That's a decision we will all have to make for ourselves. Of course, it will take actual book content to be 100% sure, but til then, for me......I'm calling the ideas mentioned unlikely.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I couldn't even tell you who came up with Mance is Rhaegar, truthfully, I was just trying to find something that was outlandish, but not debunked. I wasn't trying to talk about a third party, just mentioning a questionable theory that I happened to remember. Contrary to some popular opinion around here, not all of us read every outlandish bit of theorizing or opinion that has managed to grace the forums with it's presence. I do think it is noteworthy, though, that the writers seemed comfortable outing some of these ideas as big NOs. I do think it's because of GRRM himself that many theories, believable or otherwise, manage to last. The author seems to hold onto too many of the mysteries, IMO, and it leads to a lot of conjecture. We still have things like Tywin and Shae up in the air, for example, GRRM recently noting in an interview that there could be more to the situation that it first appeared. Leaving too much dangling for too long leads to much over theorizing, I think. As much as what is outed as disliked by the writers, or NOs, it's also interesting to note that they like the idea of Ashara is Quaithe, but still only call it a theory.

ETA: Also, I can't help but picture a big ole laugh fest between GRRM and Ran and Linda at some of these theories, though. Then again, maybe that just speaks about my own enjoyment of a good laugh.

Good luck getting your hands on the book soon, though. I wish you well.

I don't think I have too much investment in the theories Ran's dismissed, so I'm not saying this out of a self-interest principle or anything. (In the interest of disclosure, the Boltons as Others descendants is admittedly cutting close to my theory, but not my theory itself).

That said, I do find it disconcerting that so many posters are taking his unelaborated opinion on these theories as gospel, without having seen his rationale for coming to those conclusions. A few of the theories I know he's thoroughly argued against (especially Tywin-Oberyn), and as such, it's clear why he dismisses it. But for the theories without elaboration, I guess I'm at a loss as to why his dismissal alone is taken as gospel.

I suppose that my concern resides in the idea of using Ran's unelaborated opinion as "proof" that something is not true, as opposed to his argumentation and rationale for having come to that conclusion.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Means I'll give you. Motive no. He wanted Tywin dead, but not immediately. He wanted to undo the mans work, not have him die without realizing who's responsoble for it. Opprtunity, we'll there is the dinner, but I don't believe in his motive

And again, it adds nothing to the story. If anything it lessens Tyrion's murder of Tywin, because the man was going to die anyway.

I at first always went with Tywin's innards just stunk to high heaven, and it was a good metaphor for what a rotten individual he was. But, too many rereads and too much rethinking, along with too many poisoning suspects, led me to think it could be possible. I'd always thought Oberyn could have done it, but honestly, what IS so odd about an old man stuck on the john, anyway? I think some of us, myself included, overthink too much of this stuff. I was comfortable with Tywin naturally stinking, but let myself be half talked out of it, for love of Oberyn, LOL I do realize it's more likely that Tywin would have been Oberyn's next target if he had survived The Mountain. I guess I just liked the vision of Oberyn dying and knowing that Tywin would soon follow. Still, I should have stuck with my first idea at the Tywin's natural rottenness just showing through. ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If anything it lessens Tyrion's murder of Tywin, because the man was going to die anyway.

No, it doesn't. It's rather a matter of attitude but It think killing your father is killing your father. It does not matter if you don't know that he is dying anyway. The RL law agrees with me.

btw Same goes for Tyrion is a secret Targ theory. The man who raised you is your father. It does not matter whose semen created your life. It would not lessen Tyrion's murder if he was Aerys' son.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think I have too much investment in the theories Ran's dismissed, so I'm not saying this out of a self-interest principle or anything. (In the interest of disclosure, the Boltons as Others descendants is admittedly cutting close to my theory, but not my theory itself).

That said, I do find it disconcerting that so many posters are taking his unelaborated opinion on these theories as gospel, without having seen his rationale for coming to those conclusions. A few of the theories I know he's thoroughly argued against (especially Tywin-Oberyn), and as such, it's clear why he dismisses it. But for the theories without elaboration, I guess I'm at a loss as to why his dismissal alone is taken as gospel.

I suppose that my concern resides in the idea of using Ran's opinion as "proof" that something is not true, as opposed to his argumentation and rationale for having come to that conclusion.

I'm calling likely proof for me, ya all can call it whatever you want.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No, it doesn't. It's rather a matter of attitude but It think killing your father is killing your father. It does not matter if you don't know that he is dying anyway. The RL law agrees with me.

btw Same goes for Tyrion is a secret Targ theory. The man who raised you is your father. It does not matter whose semen created your life. It would not lessen Tyrion's murder if he was Aerys' son.

It would lessen it in our eyes. And Tyrion as a secret Targ is even bigger bullshit. Of course it lessens the murder. Tyrion is Tywin come again (well, if Tywin had been a dwarf and raised like Tyrion). If he's :ack: another secret Targ, it just doesn't work. Not only because genes do mather, but more importantly because Tywin was right all along in hating Tyrion. Because he really wasn't a Lannister after all.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You can consider many things not debunked, if you want, for me..........I'm going with most of the things listed are 99% unlikely to be true. That's a decision we will all have to make for ourselves. Of course, it will take actual book content to be 100% sure, but til then, for me......I'm calling the ideas mentioned unlikely.

You are missing the point. I don't for a second believe that we need official debunking for some theories like HS/HR or other things, because Martin has done nice job debunking those theories. Did you really need Ran to tell you that Howland isn't HS? Do you believe that Mance is Rhaegar is possible because it is not mentioned?

Instead of worrying about my, or others, interpretation of the Reddit article, perhaps posters should take it up with the actual interviewees?????

Again, you missed the point. I for start couldn't care less what you think... I am just discussing the fact that some people find this as official debunking of theories.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I at first always went with Tywin's innards just stunk to high heaven, and it was a good metaphor for what a rotten individual he was. But, too many rereads and too much rethinking, along with too many poisoning suspects, led me to think it could be possible.

Have you ever smelt a gut-shot animal? It aint got nothing to do with poison. :cool4:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Instead of worrying about my, or others, interpretation of the Reddit article, perhaps posters should take it up with the actual interviewees?????

Agreed.

I dont see what the problem is, Ran knows more than we do.

At the very end of the series, my guess is that we will look back on this forum and realize he was right about most everything.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You are missing the point. I don't for a second believe that we need official debunking for some theories like HS/HR or other things, because Martin has done nice job debunking those theories. Did you really need Ran to tell you that Howland isn't HS? Do you believe that Mance is Rhaegar is possible because it is not mentioned?

Again, you missed the point. I for start couldn't care less what you think... I am just discussing the fact that some people find this as official debunking of theories.

Ditto, but hey, I was trying to be polite.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't see why the discomfort. Some theories are fun but they weren't true. No biggy. Some things I believed have also been shut down by both AWOIAF and Ran. :dunno:





Yeah, I like the idea of Rhae Rhae and Arthur geeking it out. :)





IKR? Like, "there is a prophecy involved within my family!", "in mine too!", "wanna be friends?", "ok!"



Nerds :lol:






Yeah but it is understandable that he would look pretty rough after having to deal with Daeron I and Baelor I, and having future Aerys IV as a son, not to mention his life up to that.





Have you seen his wife? Because there is no way you end up looking like THIS by having such a pretty hot wife. NO WAY.





Hey, we still have Mance is Rhaegar, right? LOL



Damn, I need to decide, order now on the net or.....go to store tomorrow.





IT HASNT BEEN SHUT DOWN SO IS PRACTICALLY CONFIRMED!


Link to comment
Share on other sites

It would lessen it in our eyes. And Tyrion as a secret Targ is even bigger bullshit. Of course it lessens the murder. Tyrion is Tywin come again (well, if Tywin had been a dwarf and raised like Tyrion). If he's :ack: another secret Targ, it just doesn't work. Not only because genes do mather, but more importantly because Tywin was right all along in hating Tyrion. Because he really wasn't a Lannister after all.

so what if Tywin was right to hate him? I dont think that changes much. Tywin is dead already, nothing will change. And TYrion being Aerys' bastard is not a 'secret Targ theory'. Jon is the 'secret' Targ. Aegon is blackfyre and Tyrion is just a bastard, like the hundreds of other Targ bastards there have been over the last 3 centuries. Tyrion just happens to be the last bastard from a great house full of extremely attractive nymphos. Of course there are bastards.

The theory really is not as terrible as you make it out to sound.. It's funny, it's ironic. Oh it's really great writing. Fuck Tywin! Now Tyrion is fortunate enough to realize this man hated him for a reason more than just 'you're a dwarf'. If anything it may bring some peace to Tyrion, he will be able to let go a little bit to some of the hate that lives inside him all the time, this is a good thing for him.

Tywin was a giant hypocrite, as shown by his death with a hooker in his bed. Tyrion being Aerys' son just adds credence to the fact that Tywin's whole miserable life was just one big joke. He can kill Robb Stark at dinner, but he can't win 'em all.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't see why the discomfort. Some theories are fun but they weren't true. No biggy. Some things I believed have also been shut down by both AWOIAF and Ran. :dunno:

IKR? Like, "there is a prophecy involved within my family!", "in mine too!", "wanna be friends?", "ok!"

Nerds :lol:

Have you seen his wife? Because there is no way you end up looking like THIS by having such a pretty hot wife. NO WAY.

IT HASNT BEEN SHUT DOWN SO IS PRACTICALLY CONFIRMED!

But does it hold true in both English and Spanish?? Not sure I should trust my trusty translate button. You should see what it has done with articles of GOT filming in Spain.

I'm just doing my best not to rethink, again and again. That's why I now fear Jojenpaste, and well, actually look forward to Euron is the Dusky Woman.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So apparently starting responses with "We think..." or "I'm of the opinion that..." isn't enough these days to let people know that it is indeed their personal views on the subject, not SSM.



Do their views hold much weight? Of course since they've even worked with GRRM, that's why many people here tend to take it as much proof as they can get without SSM. But is in unquestionable fact? No.



I really don't understand what there is to argue here.


Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...