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Rhaenys_Targaryen

[TWOIAF Spoilers] Inconsistency or Intentional?

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As to the marriage of Jaehaerys and Alyssane.. Marrying in 50AC, for 46 years, places you in 96AC.. Add to that the two years Jaehaerys and Alysanne had been argueing in 92AC due to the council (which might have been effectively a break-up), and the one or two years that had happened before, you get 96AC+3 = 99AC or 96AC+4= 100AC. Gael died in 99AC, and Alysanne died within a year after.. That could still have been 99AC, and otherwise it was 100AC.



If, in fact, you can count their Quarrels as "time-out from marriage", otherwise, this doesn't work.


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He became Hand at the age of 20, and being born in 242 that'd make it 262. Yes, the book's in error here. George introduced a small error in his Westerlands material which we fixed... not realizing that the error was symptomatic of an error that ran through his timeline, so it threw everything out of whack. Next printing should have the betrothal event with Genna as being in 252, accordingly, and then I think everything else should line up all right.

ETA: Yes, George counts the Quarrel periods as "time outs". He literally has forty-six years of marriage in one sentence and in the next sentence gives the span between the marriage and her death, so the mismatch has to be intended to fit with the Quarrels.

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Ah, thank you very much :) That one had been driving me a bit crazy




Just to get it all straight in my head:



Tywin was thus born in 242AC. Kevan is mentioned to have been 55 in 300AC in Dance, so he was then born in either 245AC or 244AC. Genna was betrothed in 252AC, being 7 years old, placing her birth in either 245AC (6 turning 7) or 244AC (7 turning 8). Kevan is older than Genna, which would mean that Kevan was born in 244AC (after the death of Lord Gerold, as Lord Gerold died knowing only one grandchild), and Genna in 245AC.



So we get:


  • 242AC -> Tywin
  • 244AC -> Kevan
  • 245AC -> Genna

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I did not read all of the comments. But man, don't take the World of Ice and Fire as Martin himself states the truth in it. It is written by maester who used even gossips, so it's not a 100% sure source.


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I feel that the not really touched upon First Quarrel is going to revolve around either Jaehaerys or Alysanne falling in love with somebody else. That would be ... quite interesting.


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On the topic of "regular old spelling errors", in my first (red, US) printing--and in the present kindle edition--the first sentence of Age of Heroes states that "greet deeds were accomplished." Unless this is an intentional misspelling of "great", I believe this is an (incredibly minor) error.



Love the book and your site!


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On the last pages of book we can see the Targaryen kings' reign which shows that Baelor ruled before Daeron I., it was vice versa, Daeron was before Baelor.


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The Riverlands and Ironborn section are at odds with each other in regards to where Harwyn's Ironborn carried the ships to the Blue Fork (north or south). You get the right place by consulting the map, but this should really be corrected.


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To reiterate that Penrose thing, here are a bunch of arguments why Aelinor Penrose as cousin of Aerys I causes more problems than it solves.

I'll first quote The Hairy Bear's take on the thing from the 'Targaryen Lineage' thread, and then add my own points:


Fro
m TSS, in 211: "He will not even bestir himself to sire an heir. Queen Aelinor prays daily at the Great Sept, beseeching the Mother Above to bless her with a child, yet she remains a maid."

I don't think Aelinor being the daughter of Robin (or any descendant of Elaena) can work timewise. As you say, Eleana married Ronnel Penrose at 184 at the earliest. If we assume that no one can have offspring before being 14, then a potential granddaughter of Elaena would be born year 298 at the earliest, and be 13 or less at 211. I don't think the previous quote would make sense with Aelinor being a 13 year old (and that's stretching the timline at maximum).

So we should conclude that Elaena arranged the wedding of his husband's niece, or perhaps his daughter of a previous marriage. But then one wonders how she could be confused with Aerys' sister. In fact, one thing that in retrospective feels very weird about TSS is Egg's casual assumption that he'll marry to a sister, and Dunk's assertion that that's the usual thing to do. Now, looking at the Targaryen's of the generation, the fact is that Daeron I (Martell), his four sons (Dondarrion, Penrose, Arryn and Dayne), and the only grandson that was married at the time (a Tyroshi) were all married outside the family.

P.S.: Sorry for the necromantic quote. I came late to this thread.

P.P.S.: Another interesting question would be Ronnel's relationship with the youngest son of Lady Penrose that Fireball defeated and pardoned in 196 (THK). That complicates matters a lot. Who is this Lady Penrose? It can't be Elaena, for serveral reasons. Perhaps Ronnel was from a collateral branch of the family and he was called "Lord" as a deference (like Varys)? But then, how could he ever enter the council and marry a targaryen princess?

I've exactly the same problems with the 'Aelinor was Aerys' I cousin' thing. In my opinion, Aelinor should have been one of Elaena's daughters, that really could settle the thing. Only a daughter or granddaughter of Elaena's could be a cousin of Aerys I, though, since all the other Penrose relations of Elaena's husband would not be related to Aerys I at all.

And as you have pointed out - the quote from TSS makes all but impossible that Aelinor was recently married to Aerys I, or that she was a child bride.

Aerys I may be the last son of Daeron II to get married, but this marriage should have occurred some years prior to his ascension, as the account on his reign suggests that his Small Council asked him to take another wife rather early in his reign. That would, most likely, not have been the case if Aelinor had been a child bride recently wed to the king as people may have thought that the king wanted to wait before her deflowered the girl or something like that. Even more importantly, Aelinor herself would never have been a desperate as asking the gods to grant her a child if she had not yet been married to Aerys for quite some time.

The Lady Penrose thing from the First Blackfyre Rebellion is a nearly unresolvable problem, too. Elaena's section in the book seems to suggest that Ronnel was the Lord Penrose - he is called 'Lord' therein, and the idea that Daeron II made some second son of House Penrose who was not exactly good with numbers his Master of Coin, and married him to a Targaryen princess is, frankly, not something this smart king would do.

My suggestion would be:

Change the children of Ronnel and Elaena to three elder sons and one daughter, Aelinor, who married Aerys I. The three elder sons could then be old enough to be killed off by Fireball in 196 - if twins were among them, and we make this story about squires trying to win glory etc. Fireball sparing the youngest son could then be a nod to Princess Elaena, which could be sort of nice touch.

Even better would be the idea to make Aelinor Aerys' sister again, who perhaps was married to him in second marriage, after being married to a son of Elaena's in first marriage [although go with the classical Targaryen incest would be in order in Aerys' case, especially if their parents never actually thought that the marriage had to be consummated - considering Baelor's, Maekar's, and eventually Rhaegel's children].

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I said that Aelinor was a cousin, not that she was a descendant of Elaena.



There's no issue with the Aelinor situation.



HoW,






Thanks


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Thanks! That really settles the issue!



I guess this could mean that a daughter of Daenerys and Maron married into House Penrose, becoming the mother of Aelinor...?



The term cousin would then apply much better anyway. And this could also be a hint as to why Ronnel became Master of Coin. A part of Daeron's policy was it to get the Marcher Lords to accept this Dornish union thing. He succeeded with the Penroses and the Dondarrions, but others apparently ended up supporting Daemon.



Other thing:



Since TRP is now wrong in regards to Gerardys, do you know whether Orwyle is now effectively identical with Gerardys, meaning that he was not only the maester who amputated Viserys' fingers but also Rhaenyra's maester on Dragonstone, the one who tried to save Laena, and ended up being elected Grand Maester two years before Viserys' death?


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Or a sister of Mariah and Maron was married to a Penrose. Are there more examples of Dornish marrying with Marchers, Stormlanders or even the Reachmen as policiy of Daeron II?


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