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[TWOIAF Spoilers] Inconsistency or Intentional?

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I would say the maps are in-world whereas the art and family trees are out-of-world.


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Was Elia born in KL?

Because in ASoS, we got the following:

That Joanna and Doran's mother had become friends while serving as ladies-in-waiting to Princess Rhaella

That Oberyn was 40 in year 300

That Elia was a year his senior

In AFFC we learned that:

Doran was 10 years older than Oberyn

And now in AWoIAF we were told that Joanna only came to KL in 259, for Jaehaerys' II coronation, rather than together with Tywin in 252. Given that it should have been Elia's birth year, and that I'd expect that the 2 women should have, realistically, been together for more than a few months to become good friends, it kinda follows that Elia, and even possibly Oberyn should have been born in KL, no?

And isn't it odd that heir to Dorne, who was also a married woman with a child (Doran) would have served as a lady-in-waiting? Was her husband in KL too, and on the Small Council? Or was she not the heir apparent and only became one later?

Some curious stuff and possible inconsistencies there....

And I know that not all pictures are canonical, but given the importance of physical appearance for the Dance of the Dragons, is Viserys I' portrait with dark hair and beard supposed to be in any way representative? Or the hint in the black-and-white picture that his son Daeron had dark hair?

Elia was born in either 256AC or 257AC, Oberyn a year later. Perhaps Mama Martell only came to KL after Elia and Oberyn had been born (perhaps also for the corronarion of Jaehaerys), which would place her there together with Joanna.

Look at Margaery Tyrell, she has ladies in waiting of all kinds of ages. So Mama Martell was a little older when she was lady in waiting..

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Ran,



I guess 'Joffery Lydden', the man who married a Lannister princess and became king in her stead and took the Lannister name is a spelling error and actual supposed to be 'Joffrey Lydden', or is it not?


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Correct. Someone in editorial had a little issue with the spelling of the name.


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Ran, is the town of Saltpans in the riverlands or the Vale? Because its shown on both maps as part of them.i guess its in the riverlands, right?

And when is the next print published? Also, does anyone know if kindle ebooks from amazon update automatically?

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Elia was born in either 256AC or 257AC, Oberyn a year later.

Is it mentioned somewhere? I thought that Oberyn had been 40 when he came to KL in the very late 299...

Perhaps Mama Martell only came to KL after Elia and Oberyn had been born (perhaps also for the corronarion of Jaehaerys), which would place her there together with Joanna.

But if your dates are true, then she would have left 2 children in their infancy, one of them very frail and likely to die, half a word away. Or brought them to KL with her, which would have been perilious for their health too, particularly Elia's.

And sure, there are ladies-in-waiting of all ages, but a heir to Dorne is supposed to rule at some point, and such a position wouldn't help her gather necessary experience. Which is why I find it odd that she served as an adult woman with child(ren). As a girl, sure.

Also, what about her husband? Was he there with her, were they separated for years while she lived in KL?

It woud have made more sense to me if he had been a member of the Small Council, which would have allowed Doran's mother to participate in politics and running of the kingdom indirectly, `a la Elaena.

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Ran, is the town of Saltpans in the riverlands or the Vale? Because its shown on both maps as part of them.i guess its in the riverlands, right?

And when is the next print published? Also, does anyone know if kindle ebooks from amazon update automatically?

actually, i always wondered if Whitewalls was the now Saltpans. Same georaphic area that BR salted the earth.

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Is it mentioned somewhere? I thought that Oberyn had been 40 when he came to KL in the very late 299...

From Storm, we know that in 299AC, Oberyn was "past 40", not specifying further. In Feast, we learn that Doran, in 300AC, is 52 years old, that Elia was 9 years younger, and Oberyn one year younger than Elia, meaning he and Doran are 10 years apart, and thus, Oberyn would have been 42 in 300AC.

Whether Dorans nameday had already passed or not, when his age was mentioned, is unknown leaving for all three siblings two possible yeas of birth.

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Anybods noticed that in the westerlands section it is stated that even in asshai merchants asked lomas longstrider if the lion king really lives in halls of gold or so. But in the asshai text it is stated that he never visited this city

So whats the point? Such inconsistencies, if they are such, are sooo annoying...

Really looking forward to an edited version of the book, since we were all waiting so long for the world book

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Mando,

Hrm. I see the line comes from George that suggests he was an Andal king... but right after that he contradicts that by pointing out Benedict the Bold was half-Blackwood, half-Bracken, both First Man houses. What he must have meant was that he was the first king to follow the Seven to unify the riverlands, as the Andal petty kings before him just fought one another over their little petty kingdoms. Will tweak that in future editions.

I just noticed that Qhored the Cruel is also mentioned in the reach section as a man who raided the reach before the coming of the andals. But he also fought house justman, who existed during andal times in the riverlands...

Or does this mean that it took hundreds of years for the andals to spread across westeros? (Meaning they arrived much later in the reach than in the riverlands) i already thought the same about theon stark, that the andals he fought came much later to the north than the andals who came to the vale, riverlands, etc.

Could this be an explanation?

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I think that's part of the explanation, yes, they did not sweep from the Vale to the Reach all in a generation. I'll double check that reference.



ETA: It even notes that the Andals came quite late to the Reach in the text, and generations passed between their conquest of the eastern shore and their bothering the Reach.


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I just noticed that Qhored the Cruel is also mentioned in the reach section as a man who raided the reach before the coming of the andals. But he also fought house justman, who existed during andal times in the riverlands...

Or does this mean that it took hundreds of years for the andals to spread across westeros? (Meaning they arrived much later in the reach than in the riverlands) i already thought the same about theon stark, that the andals he fought came much later to the north than the andals who came to the vale, riverlands, etc.

Could this be an explanation?

Yes, I have thought that it was an intended inconsistency, which was a clue towards the Andal conquest taking a long time and generally hinting that the "official" time-line is inflated.I mean, why would Andals bother with the North, while there was still an opportunity to expand into the fertile and temperate Vale, the Riverlands (which would have included the Crownlands at the time), the Stormlands, the rich Westerlands, etc?

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Yes, I have thought that it was an intended inconsistency, which was a clue towards the Andal conquest taking a long time and generally hinting that the "official" time-line is inflated.I mean, why would Andals bother with the North, while there was still an opportunity to expand into the fertile and temperate Vale, the Riverlands (which would have included the Crownlands at the time), the Stormlands, the rich Westerlands, etc?

And we have to remind that all this happened long, long ago. It is stated several times that we should take events long ago or far away with a grain of salt. As long as theres some explanation like this to it im cool with it.

I also think that someone said the andal ( and the first men) invasion took centuries if not millennia.

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And we have to remind that all this happened long, long ago. It is stated several times that we should take events long ago or far away with a grain of salt. As long as theres some explanation like this to it im cool with it.

I also think that someone said the andal ( and the first men) invasion took centuries if not millennia.

I think the reach lies on the whole other side of westeros like the iron isles. I also think that they would prefer much more the southern kingdoms over the north ( initially), because i guess that they would prefer a climate similar to that of their native andalos. Such a climate would be found in the vale, riverlands and westerlands ( the northern southron kingdoms) if you take a look at the maps

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Does this



Twelve years before the Doom of Valyria (114 BC), Aenar Targaryen sold his holdings in the Freehold and the Lands of the Long Summer and moved with all his wives, wealth, slaves, dragons, siblings, kin and children to Dragonstone....[..]



mean that the Doom itself took place in 114 BC, or that 114 BC was the year that Aenar moved with his wives, children etc. to Dragonstone?


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When was Rhaena (the daughter of Aenys and Alyssa) born? Maegor was born in 12 AC, and at the age of 13 (so in 25 AC) Visenya wanted to betroth him to the newborn Rhaena. In the text of the reigns of Aenys I and Aegon I, Rhaena's exact date of birth is not stated.



Yet the reading of the Sons of the Dragon stated 23 AC as Rhaena's year of birth.. Which would make her two years old upon Maegor's marriage. Is 23 AC still the canon birth year for Rhaena?


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