[TWOIAF Spoilers] Inconsistency or Intentional?

[Ramsay's Penguins]

In terms of ruling Lords, that's easily possibly. We don't have any proof that Ellard was the father of Rickon however, he may have been his uncle or similar.

Yeah its a succession of lords, not fathers and sons.

I also made a mistake with the order, it should be

So I guess it goes Torrhen-> X Stark son of Torrhen-> Y Stark (another son of Torrhen or of X)-> Ellard-> Benjen-> Rickon-> Cregan :P

I'd also like to put it out there, that if Lord Stark who inquired at the Citadel isn't Rickon, and instead is Benjens father, then the brother who complained is likely the progenitor of the line which Lynara Stark (wife of Cregan) is from.

[Raining_Steel]

Not sure if this is wrong, or I am just misunderstanding. The Height of Casterly Rock.


"The Rock has been measured at thrice the height of the Wall or the Hightower of Oldtown"

So this would mean that the Hightower is close of height to the Wall?

The first Hightower rose fifty feet above the foundation. The first stone tower was risen at 200ft above the harbor. Then Jason Hightower rebuilt it 100 ft. taller, that's 300 ft.

So why is the Hightower and the Wall classified at similar heights?

[El-Daddy]

In the Targaryen Family Tree, "Lara Rogarre" should be "Larra Rogare."

[Ran]

Raining Steel,

Jason Hightower raised it to 300 feet, but nothing says that successors didn't raise it higher still -- in fact, they certainly did, as Jason was pre-Andal, while GRRM notes that the seven tiers are done to honor the Seven, and I think he may even have provided Nasmith the detail of each side of the highest tower featuring the graven face of one of the Seven. So basically take Nasmith's painting and chop off several of the tiers -- including the next to last, which is alone almost as tall as everything beneath it -- and you have Jason's tower.

[Bael's Bastard]

Ran,

On page 226 of my copy of TWOIAF, Orys Baratheon is described as "a black-eyed, black-haired bastard."

Can this be taken as confirmation that his legal status growing up was a bastard, and there was no question that he was a bastard (just a question of whether he was the bastard son of two commoners, or the bastard son of a noble and a commoner)?

Or is there meant to be a qualifier about him being a rumored bastard there?

[Ran]

I've always taken it that he was known to be a bastard. The question, the topic of rumor, was whether he was half-brother to Aegon and his sisters.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Viserys I was thinking about betrothing Rhaenyra to the Prince of Dorne in 113AC.. Is this Prince Qoren Martell, mentioned in the chapter on Dorne?

According to the update of the MUSH (2.0), Princess Aliandra, Qoren's daughter, was born in 113AC.. She even had an older brother (born in 109AC).. Is this brother then simply not canon? Or even this birth year for Aliandra? Or did Prince Qoren's wife died after birthing the boy, and did he remarry shortly after Viserys considering betrothing Rhaenyra to him, having Aliandra born late in the year?

[Bael's Bastard]

I've always taken it that he was known to be a bastard. The question, the topic of rumor, was whether he was half-brother to Aegon and his sisters.

Thank you for answering. That is the impression I came away with after TWOIAF.

[Cubicz]

SPELLING:

It was Aegon’s son, King Daeron II the Good, who finally brought Dorne into the realm … not with iron and fire but with soft swords and smiles

I'm assuming soft WORDS were meant

[Lord Varys]

Ran,

is Vermithor truly the eldest Targaryen dragon after Vhagar/Meraxes/Balerion while other older dragons were still alive (Dreamfyre, for instance, which should be older than Vermithor if Jaehaerys was the first rider, due to the age difference between Rhaena and Jaehaerys) as claimed on the first page of the Jaehaerys I section, or is this only sort of true later on, when Dreamfyre (and other dragons?) have died?

[Mithras]

Since the Further East emerged from the Long Night and the centuries of chaos that followed, eleven dynasties have held sway over the lands we now call Yi Ti. Some lasted no more than a half century; the longest endured for seven hundred years. Some dynasties gave way to others peacefully, others with blood and steel. On four occasions, the end of a dynasty was followed by a period of anarchy and lawlessness when warlords and petty kings warred with one another for supremacy; the longest of these interregnums lasted more than a century.

After the LN, centuries of chaos took place.

11 dynasties ruled after the LN.

The longest of them endured 700 years. Shortest of them was 50 years.

The ends of 4 dynasties were followed by turmoil which lasted more than 100 years in the longest case.

One can argue that the LN happened 6000 years ago or 8000 years ago. However, if Yandel was so precise about Yi Ti dynasties after the LN, why did he not give the exact timing of the LN? After all, Yandel does not seem to lack resources about the long history of Yi Ti. He complains of space restrictions, nothing else.

[Lord Varys]

His accounts may not be complete. More importantly, there is a sidebar in the book explaining that. Other cultures reckon time differently, and the Citadel has not really made any real progress in unifying their time reckoning with the time reckoning of (many other) foreign cultures. They have even trouble dating Valyrian stuff, if I remember correctly, the idea that many maester really have any firsthand knowledge of Yi Ti is very unlikely.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

The reference to Lord Ellard being glad to support the Watch is an error -- the name was put in before George provided a list of the ruling Starks going back to Torrhen to us and we saw what date actually worked properly, but missed changing the name. We'll change it to "the Starks were glad" and leave just which Lord Stark it was to George to decide for Fire and Blood.

Is Lord Ellard still the Lord of Winterfell during the Great Council of 101 AC? Or should that be another Stark now?

[Bael's Bastard]

Is Lord Ellard still the Lord of Winterfell during the Great Council of 101 AC? Or should that be another Stark now?

I just saw that on page 65 of my copy on the last page for Jaehaerys I, Lord Ellard Stark is listed as having supported Laenor's claim.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

I just saw that on page 65 of my copy on the last page for Jaehaerys I, Ellard Stark is listed as having supported Laenor's claim.

Yeah, but since Ellard is no longer Lord of Winterfell when the New Gift is decided, does that mean that naming him at the Great Council is also wrong? Or is that still canon?

[El-Daddy]

Yeah, but since Ellard is no longer Lord of Winterfell when the New Gift is decided, does that mean that naming him at the Great Council is also wrong? Or is that still canon?

I'd say it is. Only him being the Lord when the New Gift was given was un-canoned. There's no reason why he wouldn't be canon for The Great Council.

[Maester Mando]

I've always taken it that he was known to be a bastard. The question, the topic of rumor, was whether he was half-brother to Aegon and his sisters.

So of what ancestry is house baratheon? Andal or valyrian or something else?

[Bael's Bastard]

So of what ancestry is house baratheon? Andal or valyrian or something else?

If Orys was known to be a bastard, and rumored to be baseborn, it seems to imply any known parent was a commoner. Where the Baratheon name comes from is still a mystery. And i wonder if it might be something GRRM hasn't even worked out yet. My guess is Baratheon is a name Orys was allowed to choose for himself at some point, not the name of a legal father, or a bastard name (which would make sense if he was legally baseborn, but not being the son of commoners).

[Eiko Dragonhorn]

In Aegon III's rule, when he comes of age(136 AC) it says he dismisses his Hand Lord Manderly... but on the previous page(83) the only Manderly listed among his council for all those years was Ser Torrhen Manderly who gave up his office 4 years prior(132 AC).

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

In Aegon III's rule, when he comes of age(136 AC) it says he dismisses his Hand Lord Manderly... but on the previous page(83) the only Manderly listed among his council for all those years was Ser Torrhen Manderly who gave up his office 4 years prior(132 AC).

Perhaps Manderly returned?