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[TWOIAF Spoilers] Inconsistency or Intentional?

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Ran told me that THK is set in 209 and TSS &TMK in 211 when I inquired that it does not make sense that Ser Arlan could have possibly witnessed the death of the last dragon in 153.



But I know that this causes other problems...


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Wasn't it heavily implied previously (possibly in excerpts, something about Argilac's black hair going grey) that the unusually dominant baratheon black hair was a Durrendon trait, but it is said that Orys had black hair.



On another note I am glad to see that my speculation about archery in the marches was proven right.


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Ran told me that THK is set in 209 and TSS &TMK in 211 when I inquired that it does not make sense that Ser Arlan could have possibly witnessed the death of the last dragon in 153.

But I know that this causes other problems...

Yeah, I'd say that TSS and TMK take place in different years (so perhaps TSS late in 211 and TMK early in 212), as TSS states that the Redgrass Field was 15 years ago, and TMK states 16 years ago, as I mentioned before..

Arlan, in 209AC, was closer to 60 than to 50 when he died (so somewhere in between 55 and 60). He would have been really young when seeing the dragon in 153AC.. 4 years old at the most, though that could work, I guess.

Another thing, connected to Dunk and Egg. The World Book states that the drought lasted for more than 2 years, yet TSS states that the drought was entering its second year. At the end of that story, it starts to rain. Was this only a short rain shower, that doesn't count as the end of the drought?

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Realized that, too. Dunk could be exaggerating things, though. After all, he was in Dorne quite a while...



Forget that. Yandel is not good with numbers. If something begins in 210 and ends in 211, you have to count the months. Yandel most likely did not...


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In Asshai section, Yandel says Lomas Longstrider never visited Asshai... but he (Yandel) said people in Asshai asked him (Lomas) about Lion Lord who lives in a palace of gold (regarding Casterly Rock).

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In Asshai section, Yandel says Lomas Longstrider never visited Asshai... but he (Yandel) said people in Asshai asked him (Lomas) about Lion Lord who lives in a palace of gold (regarding Casterly Rock).

I posted the exact quotes one page back, if anyone wants to see the precise wording.

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^Sorry. I didn't check the previous pages.

Gogossos is spelled as Gorgossos.

No prob, just clarifying, these threads can get out of hand, it's quite easy to miss something.

The Gogossos one actually got me! I did a search in my e-book and was wondering why I found nothing... "coulda sworn I read about it earlier".

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I'm sorry if I'm missing something (I haven't got to read most of the book yet, sadly), but I have a question regarding the family trees: the ruling lords are supposed to be in bold, aren't they? Then why is Kevan bold and not Cersei? I've thought she was the Lady of Casterly Rock?


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I have a question that hopefully Ran will answer--where was the Anniversary Tourney of 272 AC held--King's Landing or Lannisport. On p. 115, the books states that court returned to KL in 268 AC. On p.116, the Anniversary Tourney of 272 AC is discussed and Joanna presents the twins before the court. That information suggests the 272 tourney was in KL--where court had returned in 268. Further, on p. 117, the Lannisport Tourney of 276 AC was held to celebrate the birth of Prince Viserys, held by Tywin presumably as a gesture toward reconciliation. This information also makes more sense if the 272 tourney was held in KL--otherwise the 276 tourney would not make sense as an effort toward reconciliation if the 272 tourney was also in Lannisport and it would seem strange to have two major tourneys in the same location so close in time.



But then on p. 124, the book explicitly states that the great Lannisport Tourney of 272 AC was hosted by Tywin in celebration of Aerys II's tenth year on the throne. So now what is reference as the "Anniversary Tourney" on p. 272 (and implied to have been held at KL) is reference as the Lannisport Tourney (and explicitly stated as having been held in Lannisport).



Is this an inconsistency? Or am just incorrectly interpreting the earlier information as suggesting KL as the location (and the reference to court is merely a statement that court is wherever the king is located at that moment) and the 272 tourney clearly was held at Lannisport? Thoughts?


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That is a curious mistake indeed. I took it that anniversary tourney took place in KL since it states that Joanna presented Cersei and Jaime there to court - that would not have been the case in the West where the king and the court would actually have the guests of Lord Tywin. And we also know that Aerys was rather recently in the West - when Tytos died in 267 AC.



I'd imagine that either Tywin was in charge of staging the celebration tourney in KL, or Yandel confuses the tourney in the West in 276 AC (Viserys' birth tourney) with the 10th anniversary tourney of 272 AC. I guess the latter would make more sense, since the former clearly would have been paid for by the Crown, even if Tywin had organized it.



No idea if any of this is intentional, though.


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LV--the explanation cannot be just a matter of Tywin staging the celebration tourney in KL because on p. 124, the book specifically states: " . . . at the great Lannisport tourney of 272 AC, hosted by Lord Tywin Lannister in celebration of Aerys II's tenth year upon the Iron Throne." (emphasis added) Either Yandel is confusing the 272 tourney with the 276 tourney or both were held in Lannisport (which does not really make sense).


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Arlan, in 209AC, was closer to 60 than to 50 when he died (so somewhere in between 55 and 60). He would have been really young when seeing the dragon in 153AC.. 4 years old at the most, though that could work, I guess.

I could imagine that dragons are such a big deal that even if Arlan was too young to actually remember it, he'd still boast of having seen the last one. His father or whoever probably told him about it growing up.

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Aerys' reign states that Joanna brought the twins from Casterly Rock to court to present them before the king. Since it is not mentioned in that text that the court moved in the West before that, it is heavily alluded that this tourney took place in KL, not in Lannisport/CR. The court would reside in CR, I imagine, if Aerys had come into the West, so there would have been no need for Joanna to go anywhere to present her children to the king.



p. 116, second column


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I have a question that hopefully Ran will answer--where was the Anniversary Tourney of 272 AC held--King's Landing or Lannisport. On p. 115, the books states that court returned to KL in 268 AC. On p.116, the Anniversary Tourney of 272 AC is discussed and Joanna presents the twins before the court. That information suggests the 272 tourney was in KL--where court had returned in 268. Further, on p. 117, the Lannisport Tourney of 276 AC was held to celebrate the birth of Prince Viserys, held by Tywin presumably as a gesture toward reconciliation. This information also makes more sense if the 272 tourney was held in KL--otherwise the 276 tourney would not make sense as an effort toward reconciliation if the 272 tourney was also in Lannisport and it would seem strange to have two major tourneys in the same location so close in time.

But then on p. 124, the book explicitly states that the great Lannisport Tourney of 272 AC was hosted by Tywin in celebration of Aerys II's tenth year on the throne. So now what is reference as the "Anniversary Tourney" on p. 272 (and implied to have been held at KL) is reference as the Lannisport Tourney (and explicitly stated as having been held in Lannisport).

Is this an inconsistency? Or am just incorrectly interpreting the earlier information as suggesting KL as the location (and the reference to court is merely a statement that court is wherever the king is located at that moment) and the 272 tourney clearly was held at Lannisport? Thoughts?

Isn't it possible that there were two tourneys hosted in 272AC? One by Tywin at Lannisport, and one by Aerys in KL? Possibly even one of the men trying to outdo the other?

I could imagine that dragons are such a big deal that even if Arlan was too young to actually remember it, he'd still boast of having seen the last one. His father or whoever probably told him about it growing up.

Probably, yeah.

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Aerys' reign states that Joanna brought the twins from Casterly Rock to court to present them before the king. Since it is not mentioned in that text that the court moved in the West before that, it is heavily alluded that this tourney took place in KL, not in Lannisport/CR. The court would reside in CR, I imagine, if Aerys had come into the West, so there would have been no need for Joanna to go anywhere to present her children to the king.

p. 116, second column

Did Ned not present his children to the king (and court) when Robert came to Winterfell?

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That would be rather weird, since Joanna and Tywin were at court with Aerys, and went then back - possibly without him? - to stage another huge tourney in his honor?



The splendor of the 276 AC tourney in the West should also have been very grandiose, since Yandel hints at that Aerys was sort of pissed how wealthy and rich the Lannisters were...



RumHum,



that is true. Still no mentioning that the king and court moved to the West for that tourney.



The lickspittles who laugh about Joanna being humiliated are also there in the scene. Would they have done this in the Lannisters own domains?


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Isn't it possible that there were two tourneys hosted in 272AC? One by Tywin at Lannisport, and one by Aerys in KL? Possibly even one of the men trying to outdo the other?

No, I don't think so. The earlier reference is part of the discussion of the reign of Aerys II and is referenced as the Anniversary Tourney. There is no mention of any other tourney in 272 in that section, but there is a reference to the 276 tourney in Lannisport on the next page in that section. The later reference is part of the "false spring" chapter and part of a discussion of the tourney of 280, and in passing that tourney is compared to "the great Lannisport tourney of 272." If there was a great Lannisport tourney of 272 that was held in 272 and was separate from the Anniversary Tourney of 272 in KL, and it was so "great" that it was a basis for comparison to the 280 tourney, it would have been mentioned in the section discussing the actual events of 272. And it wasn't. Also the later reference stated that it was held in celebration of the 10th anniversary--so were there two tourneys in celebration of the same thing? No, either the reference to "court" in the earlier section simply means wherever the king is "seated" at that moment is "court" or the later reference confuses the 272 tourney with the 276 tourney.

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