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Rhaenys_Targaryen

[TWOIAF Spoilers] Inconsistency or Intentional?

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That would be rather weird, since Joanna and Tywin were at court with Aerys, and went then back - possibly without him? - to stage another huge tourney in his honor?

The splendor of the 276 AC tourney in the West should also have been very grandiose, since Yandel hints at that Aerys was sort of pissed how wealthy and rich the Lannisters were...

RumHum,

that is true. Still no mentioning that the king and court moved to the West for that tourney.

The lickspittles who laugh about Joanna being humiliated are also there in the scene. Would they have done this in the Lannisters own domains?

In the reign of Aerys II, it is stated that Joanna brought her twins from Casterly Rock to present them before the court. That indeed sounds like Joanna travelled from CR to KL

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Unmaksed Lurker pointed out on another thread that the tourney of 272 is at 2 different locations. It must be a mistake.



The information on p. 116 strongly implies (but not explicitly states) that the 272 tourney was at KL. On p. 117, the discussion of the 276 tourney in Lannisport is stated as an effort of reconciliation, which would not make sense if 4 years earlier the tourney was also in Lannisport. But then on p. 124 the text clearly states the 272 tourney was in Lannisport. I wonder if this is an editing mistake.


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Another thing that would make it unlikely for Aerys to travel to Casterly Rock for his own anniversary is that was recently there - in 267/8, after Tytos died - and the first cracks in their relationship occurred during unspecified events back then - which had, possibly, also to do with the splendor, might, power, and wealth of House Lannister.



In 276 AC, though, this would have been much farther back in the past...


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In the reign of Aerys II, it is stated that Joanna brought her twins from Casterly Rock to present them before the court. That indeed sounds like Joanna travelled from CR to KL

Right--CR and Lannisport are very close. Why would they describe Joanna as "traveling" from Casterly Rock to Lannisport--when that is not much of a travel. The later reference has to be a mistake and a confusion between the 272 Anniversary Tourney in KL with the 276 Lannisport Tourney held in celebration of the birth of Viserys. I don't know if the mistake is "intentional" in that the authors wanted to have these sorts of "mistakes" to show that the maesters' reports can be unreliable due to confused memories or whether it is an editing mistake. But the later reference makes no sense--there could not have been a tourney in 272 in Lannisport to celebrate the coronation anniversary.

Unmaksed Lurker pointed out on another thread that the tourney of 272 is at 2 different locations. It must be a mistake.

The information on p. 116 strongly implies (but not explicitly states) that the 272 tourney was at KL. On p. 117, the discussion of the 276 tourney in Lannisport is stated as an effort of reconciliation, which would not make sense if 4 years earlier the tourney was also in Lannisport. But then on p. 124 the text clearly states the 272 tourney was in Lannisport. I wonder if this is an editing mistake.

Yes, thanks--I am also the one who brought the issue to this thread to try to get an answer to this "error" in the book.

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Could someone with a second or third (or fourth) print check for me whether Genna's engagement is still listed as having occured in 254AC? (mentioned in the Westerlands section)



It is specifically stated that Tywin was appointed Hand in 262AC at the age of 20.. Being 20 in 262AC can't be if Tywin was 10 in 254AC..



I have the first print of the book, and as of yet, no one has been able to tell me which of the two years is wrong.. If I have to guess, I'd say the year of Genna's engagement, but confirmation from anyone would be nice..


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Could someone with a second or third (or fourth) print check for me whether Genna's engagement is still listed as having occured in 254AC? (mentioned in the Westerlands section)

It is specifically stated that Tywin was appointed Hand in 262AC at the age of 20.. Being 20 in 262AC can't be if Tywin was 10 in 254AC..

I have the first print of the book, and as of yet, no one has been able to tell me which of the two years is wrong.. If I have to guess, I'd say the year of Genna's engagement, but confirmation from anyone would be nice..

It's still 254 AC. Tywin was ten years old

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Right--CR and Lannisport are very close. Why would they describe Joanna as "traveling" from Casterly Rock to Lannisport--when that is not much of a travel. The later reference has to be a mistake and a confusion between the 272 Anniversary Tourney in KL with the 276 Lannisport Tourney held in celebration of the birth of Viserys. I don't know if the mistake is "intentional" in that the authors wanted to have these sorts of "mistakes" to show that the maesters' reports can be unreliable due to confused memories or whether it is an editing mistake. But the later reference makes no sense--there could not have been a tourney in 272 in Lannisport to celebrate the coronation anniversary.

Yes, thanks--I am also the one who brought the issue to this thread to try to get an answer to this "error" in the book.

Sorry, just now having my coffee.

And he's still appointed Hand at the age of 20 in 262AC?

Yeah, so I guess he was 18, not 20.

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I could imagine that dragons are such a big deal that even if Arlan was too young to actually remember it, he'd still boast of having seen the last one. His father or whoever probably told him about it growing up.

I have lots of memories from when I was one, two and three. Even remember certain photographs being taken.

My son said recently that he remembered a black car that we had. We sold that car when he was a one year old.

So I should imagine that the spectacle of seeing a dragon would have been imprinted on the memory.

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The problem with Arlan is that he saw the last dragon a year before her death (i.e. in 152), and we know that Arlan is not yet sixty when he dies in 209. That is sort of a problem. I walked with 11 months, but I do not remember all that much from that era. Now it looks like Arlan's father fed him the idea he has seen the last dragon, but it's very unlikely that he has any conscious memory of that event.


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It's not an issue. Sometimes people claim to remember things when they were very young that are in fact constructions from what they had been told by others.

So that's not changing. :)

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I know. Just trying to point that. Any enlightenment on the anniversary tourney thing of 272 AC? KL or Lannisport? And if so, what's your reasoning...


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Perhaps Ser Arlan needed a better helmet. He also misremembered (or embellished) the number of lances he broke against Baelor Breakspear. Of course, he might have had a extra cup or two of Arbor Gold; then he could be guilty of embaelishing it.


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And he's still appointed Hand at the age of 20 in 262AC?

Yes.

Plus, Tywin is said to have married Joanna one year after he became Hand (263). In another section, it is specified as 264

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Yes.

Plus, Tywin is said to have married Joanna one year after he became Hand (263). In another section, it is specified as 264

Really?

I'm pretty sure 263 is the correct year they were married.

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We're aware of those date issues, BTW. Thanks for discussing it, however, folks. It helps sort things out. I believe the date issue LBR notes all came from a partial attempt to correct issues introduced in the course of putting the book together, but some of the fixes seem to have not made it in. I'll have to check my emails with editorial to see where things went wrong.

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Hm. We don't know when Jaehaerys II died in 262 AC, anyway. And the Hand appointment gives a lot of interesting fuel to the 'Joanna ruled as mistress' directly after Aerys' coronation. That would make little sense if Tywin had already been Hand at that time, or would it?


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We're aware of those date issues, BTW. Thanks for discussing it, however, folks. It helps sort things out. I believe the date issue LBR notes all came from a partial attempt to correct issues introduced in the course of putting the book together, but some of the fixes seem to have not made it in. I'll have to check my emails with editorial to see where things went wrong.

Would it be possible to post on the thread eventually which dates are the correct ones?

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