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[TWOIAF Spoilers] Inconsistency or Intentional?


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We don't know anything about Tyanna's fall beside the fact that she did fall and confessed that she had poisoned Maegor's unborn children (or rather their mothers).



The most likely scenario there is that Maegor turned - for some reason (he started to mistrust, people plotted against her, etc.) - against Tyanna, had her tortured, and she confessed that she did this thing. She would not have confessed this thing just because she thought it was a fun thing to do. In my opinion, Maegor just needed another scapegoat to explain why the hell he could just father monstrosities (or no children at all).



A less likely scenario is that Tyanna - for some reason - felt compelled to confess that she actually did such a thing out of love for him because she was not willing to share him with any other woman or allow that another woman delivers him a healthy heir.



But we really don't know enough about Tyanna/Maegor to decide which scenario it is. I'd lean to first option.


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Sorry if this has already been asked but is the woiaf book implying Doran was Prince of Dorne in 279 when Elia was betrothed to Rhaegar? I thought Elia's mother was still alive at that point to arrange the match. Did she die as soon as Aerys gave the match the green light?

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We don't know anything about Tyanna's fall beside the fact that she did fall and confessed that she had poisoned Maegor's unborn children (or rather their mothers).

The most likely scenario there is that Maegor turned - for some reason (he started to mistrust, people plotted against her, etc.) - against Tyanna, had her tortured, and she confessed that she did this thing. She would not have confessed this thing just because she thought it was a fun thing to do. In my opinion, Maegor just needed another scapegoat to explain why the hell he could just father monstrosities (or no children at all).

A less likely scenario is that Tyanna - for some reason - felt compelled to confess that she actually did such a thing out of love for him because she was not willing to share him with any other woman or allow that another woman delivers him a healthy heir.

But we really don't know enough about Tyanna/Maegor to decide which scenario it is. I'd lean to first option.

Nah, once Maegor ordered to get "the truth" out of her, it was a matter of time until she confessed whatever she was told to confess. That's how torture works. She didn't need a reason to say that besides wanting the pain to stop.

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Yeah, but the text does not state she was tortured. I assume she was tortured before she confessed, but we don't know that for sure. My unlikelier scenario would be something like Tyanna telling Maegor - perhaps after a night of really great sex - that out of love for him she had killed/poisoned the other wives so that her would be hers forever and she would give him many healthy sons etc.



Maegor would then have risen from the bed, taken Blackfyre, killed Tyanna, and fed her heart to his dogs. Something less likely, I agree, but not completely impossible.


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I'm probably missing something here but Tyanna admitted that she was responsible for Maegor's "monster" babies and that she poisoned his brides. My question is that how did Elinor Costayne and Jeyne Westerling had monster babies when Tyanna was dead. I mean, didn't Maegor marry with his Black Brides after Tyanna's death?

Just checked the wiki while typing this... so there was Tyanna and then there were Black Brides, right? So Tyanna was responsible for monster babies. Ok.

Tyanna died in 48 AC, Maegor married the Black Brides in 47 AC.. So it would seem that Tyanna died after at least one of the Black Brides gave birth to such a "monster"

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Lord Orys Baratheon was captured by the Dornish Lord Wyl in 4 AC. About a year later, Sunspear was taken, Lord Rosby installed as castellan, Lord Harlan Tyrell given charge of chasing rebels, and the Targaryens returned home.... But Orys wasn't ransommed back until 7 AC...



Did Aegon I seriously leave Orys behind in the hands of House Wyl? It sounds from text that he was rather secure about taking Sunspear... And with Dorne under the "rule of the Iron Throne" (or so Aegon thought), wouldn't he have simply demanded Orys' return?


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Lord Orys Baratheon was captured by the Dornish Lord Wyl in 4 AC. About a year later, Sunspear was taken, Lord Rosby installed as castellan, Lord Harlan Tyrell given charge of chasing rebels, and the Targaryens returned home.... But Orys wasn't ransommed back until 7 AC...

Did Aegon I seriously leave Orys behind in the hands of House Wyl? It sounds from text that he was rather secure about taking Sunspear... And with Dorne under the "rule of the Iron Throne" (or so Aegon thought), wouldn't he have simply demanded Orys' return?

We know that most Dornish fled into the desert or Red Mountains, and the Wyls probably did the same. No one to ask for Orys back. Under the "rule of the Iron Throne " as in we have Sunspear and Hellholt.

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We know that most Dornish fled into the desert or Red Mountains, and the Wyls probably did the same. No one to ask for Orys back. Under the "rule of the Iron Throne " as in we have Sunspear and Hellholt.

Sunspear and Hellholt are specifically mentioned, yes, but other seats will have been taken as well..

Aegon and Visenya felled secure enough to take their dragons back to KL... If there were more seats to conquer, you'd expect them to stick around with Balerion and Vhagar a little while longer...

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Sunspear and Hellholt are specifically mentioned, yes, but other seats will have been taken as well..

Aegon and Visenya felled secure enough to take their dragons back to KL... If there were more seats to conquer, you'd expect them to stick around with Balerion and Vhagar a little while longer...

Yes my bad, the Dragons Wroth was after the death of Rhaenys. Ghost Hill was theirs to take, so obviously they did and others are mentioned to. The Dornish abandoned the castles however, so no dragons were needed. The Dornish war was more then the entire Conquest. 4-13 AC.

I still would say that is the reason Orys was not yet ransomed, as they couldn't find the Wyls.

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The Wyls were the ones who put the Dragonknight in the pit, and the same ones who were perfectly willing to let Baelor die despite the peace offer he had just made with Sunspear. This was obviously much later but there seems to be a recurring theme of House Wyl being hard to control.



They have their castle connected to caverns and such, and are located in the Boneway, far from Sunspear. House Martell would have a very difficult time punishing them for disobedience. Another example is the first Vulture King, whom the Wyls fought for. It is specifically mentioned that House Martell basically did nothing about the Vulture King, so it's pretty easy for me to believe that a Lord Wyl named "the Widow-Lover" would refuse to give up his prisoner despite House Martell and King Aegon wanting it.



The extra time in captivity helps explain Orys' bitterness and obsession with revenge on Dorne.



btw, Reading about his revenge was a bit shocking. He seemed a bit more chivalrous before TWOIAF, as we already knew he was honorable because he supposedly dismounted to fight Argilac, who was on foot, and (relatively) kind to Argilac's daughter.



To me this argues that he was traumatized by his experience in captivity and obviously from the loss of his hand. Think Jaime when he first lost his hand, except instead of redemption we see the opposite, and instead of a short captivity with the Brave Companions, 3 years in a Wyl dungeon... again, at the hands of a guy named "Widow-Lover".



I'm thinking it went a bit like this: pressure from Sunspear and perhaps other houses gets the Lord Wyl to finally release his prisoners, but because he's not happy about it, he does the hand chopping thing, knowing he can get away with it.



It could also be that he cut the hands off as soon as they were taken captive, but I think it makes more sense that he did it only upon releasing them.


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The extra time in captivity helps explain Orys' bitterness and obsession with revenge on Dorne.

Yeah, I thought about that too... Just imagine....

BTW, not an inconsistency per se, but isn't it strange that Joanna had been old enough to allegedly have sex with Aerys in 259, but only married Tywin in 263? As per ASoS, Tywin and Joanna were supposed to have been betrothed when the whole arrest of Lord Tarbeck - kidnapping of Stafford and 2 lesser Lannisters happened, so... In 260? 261?

But how did that betrothal come about and why was it as lengthy as it was, considering that both principals were old enough for marriage by Westerosi standards? I mean, we now know that Lord Gerold couldn't have been behind the betrothal, so did Tytos make it to please his brother Jason, or in his memory and Tywin didn't resist him in this instance? Or did Tywin arrange it himself, after all?

To come back to this shortly... We have only semi-canon sources for the age of Jason upon his weddings, and using that, it can be said that Joanna was born he earliest in 245AC... (Damon was conceived in 244, if he was also born in 244, Joanna could have been born the earliest in 245).. so she definitly was 3 years younger than Tywin (b. 242), if not more..

Which would make her 18 years old at her wedding, if not younger.. and that age doesn't sound so strange.. Cersei was unmarried at the age of 18. You could argue that that was because Tywin was trying to score a royal match for her.. Catelyn Tully had been betrothed since the age of 12, and was supposed to marry when she was 18, in 282 AC.

So no matter whether Joanna was born in the first year of Jason's marriage, or later, her age upon marriage is not a strange one.

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From Storms, Oberyn and Tyrion conversation:

“Were you aware that our mothers knew each other of old?”

“They had been at court together as girls, I seem to recall. Companions to Princess Rhaella?”

“Just so. It was my belief that the mothers had cooked up this plot between them. Squire Squishlips and his ilk and the various pimply young maidens who’d been paraded before me were the almonds before the feast, meant only to whet our appetites. The main course was to be served at Casterly Rock.”

Joanna moved to KL in 259 and left soon after her wedding in 263, princess of Dorne already was mother of three, hardly "a girl"...
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There has to be 'the last Lord Lothston', possibly Mad Danelle's son who took over directly after her death, ruling only for short time. Perhaps Danelle is slain in battle and her son is Lord Lothston while Harrenhal is besieged by Maekar's troops...?


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KCenturion,



We know that Manfryd was the lord during the first Blackfyre Rebellion.



Lord Varys,



Why do you assume there was a last male lord Lothston?



I can only find Ser Illifer's quote in AFFC: "My grandfather’s grandfather helped kill the last o’ Lothston.", which could also apply to Lady Danelle.



Given the AWOIAF remark that "Their line was ended in madness and chaos when Lady Danelle Lothston turned to the black arts during the reign of King Maekar", I would assume that she was the last ruler of the house.


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