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[TWOIAF Spoiler] Targaryen Lineage

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Varamyr? Borroq? There are many wildling skinchangers.

True.

The key element so far seems to be First Men blood. I wonder what this means for Jon and Dany.

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It gives me great joy to read this thread. People once heatedly argued against the idea of skinchanging into a dragon now think that it is very cool for Dany to have some Blackwood ancestor, which suposedly makes her automatically a skinchanger.


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GRRM could have had Egg marry anyone, why a Blackwood? We know that they are a family associated with skin changing. Like I said I don't think it's a coincidence and neither is the fact that there were two generation of intermarriage.

Could his marrriage have something to do with BRaven leading the council which make Egg the King?

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In what degree is Aelinor Aerys' cousin? To be first cousins, Daeron II must have had a sibling, of which we have heard nothing.


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Who said Tarths married Targs?

Why would a Targ marry a Tarth?

Although since everyone else married for love I think Rhae and Daella could to.

I doubt that Aerion married Daenora for love ;), or Daeron Kiera

Later, other monarchs preferred to dock their fleets on the western shore of Tarth, where that great island's mountains helped to shelter them from the storms that often raged through the narrow sea. The Sapphire Isle, as some call it, is ruled by House Tarth of Evenfall Hall - an old family of Andal descent that boasts of ties to the Durrandons, the Baratheons, and more recently to House Targaryen.

(first edition, page 232, Stormlands section, above the picture of the Evenfall Hall of Tarth)

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Wasn't Rhae and Daella supposed to be married? In the wiki it seems also they had descendants: http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Rhae_Targaryen

I posted a reply to this in the other thread you posted the question in.

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/119534-twoiaf-spoilers-inconsistency-or-intentional/page-2#entry6391749

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True.

The key element so far seems to be First Men blood. I wonder what this means for Jon and Dany.

Everyone has First Men blood. Stannis's mother was an Estermont. Mace's mom is a Redwyne. Doran's ancestors probably married an Yronwood at least once. Heck, even Arryns probably married a Royce. I don't think FM blood is that important.

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My guess is that Daella and Dunk eventually marry, Daella dies, Dunk joins the KG, and a daughter of that union is Brienne's grandmother (Daella is Egg's elder sister and the one he was supposed to marry, making it brilliant irony if she instead falls for Dunk). But that's stated nowhere in the text. All we get is that there are recent blood ties between the Tarths and the Targaryens, which honestly only leaves Rhae, Daella, and Maegor, or any of their children.



However Maegor is too young to father the mother of Lord Selwyn, if I'm not mistaken.



The fact that Rhae's husband is not mentioned, is intriguing, too.



And any children of Duncan with Jenny are also not mentioned. Perhaps some/all of them died at Summerhall? I'd find it peculiar if they did not have any children at all. Rhaegar is confirmed to be Egg's first great-grandson, but it is nowhere stated that Aerys and Rhaella were his only grandchildren.


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In what degree is Aelinor Aerys' cousin? To be first cousins, Daeron II must have had a sibling, of which we have heard nothing.

Ran didn't say, but I'm guessing that she would then be a daughter of Robin Penrose, himself the son of Elaena Targaryen.

Elaena married Ronnel Penrose during the reign of Daeron II, thus in 184AC the earliest. Since Daeron II saw to it that Daemon Blackfyre got married after the death of their father, and Daemon had his twins that same year (184AC), it seems that Aegon's death took place early in the year. If Daemon can marry and have children before 184AC has come to a close, so can Elaena, meaning that Robin, the eldest of her four Penrose children (the other three were girls, Laena, Jocelyn and Joy), would be born in 184AC the earliest.

It sounds like Aelinor and Aerys were already married in 209AC, so there are 25 years in between the earliest moment of Robin's birth, and the moment where Aelinor should have been old enough to marry (12? 13?). If both Robin and Aelinor married young, this would work..

If not, then I guess she descents from one of Elaena's daughters, though she would only be called Penrose in such a situation if Robin died very young, and the house survived by having a ruling lady (one of Elaena's daughters in that case).

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Could his marrriage have something to do with BRaven leading the counsil which make Egg the King?

That's what I was thinking and knowing what we know of Bloodraven he probably might have had an agenda if he did indeed arrange the marriage. This also might changes some of the speculation regarding the relationship between Egg and Bloodraven.

It gives me great joy to read this thread. People once heatedly argued against the idea of skinchanging into a dragon now think that it is very cool for Dany to have some Blackwood ancestor, which suposedly makes her automatically a skinchanger.

As I said earlier in the thread I still doubt that dragons can be skin changed - we just wondered whether the ability might help with the bonding process. If you are going to make comments like the above please get your facts straight.

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My guess is that Daella and Dunk eventually marry, Daella dies, Dunk joins the KG, and a daughter of that union is Brienne's grandmother (Daella is Egg's elder sister and the one he was supposed to marry, making it brilliant irony if she instead falls for Dunk). But that's stated nowhere in the text. All we get is that there are recent blood ties between the Tarths and the Targaryens, which honestly only leaves Rhae, Daella, and Maegor, or any of their children.

However Maegor is too young to father the mother of Lord Selwyn, if I'm not mistaken.

The fact that Rhae's husband is not mentioned, is intriguing, too.

And any children of Duncan with Jenny are also not mentioned. Perhaps some/all of them died at Summerhall? I'd find it peculiar if they did not have any children at all. Rhaegar is confirmed to be Egg's first great-grandson, but it is nowhere stated that Aerys and Rhaella were his only grandchildren.

While this is all still likely, if Daella married Dunk, and a child of theirs married into House Tarth, then it wouldn't actually be House Targaryen who married into House Tarth, would it? It would be whatever name Dunk gave his house...

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Ran didn't say, but I'm guessing that she would then be a daughter of Robin Penrose, himself the son of Elaena Targaryen.

Elaena married Ronnel Penrose during the reign of Daeron II, thus in 184AC the earliest. Since Daeron II saw to it that Daemon Blackfyre got married after the death of their father, and Daemon had his twins that same year (184AC), it seems that Aegon's death took place early in the year. If Daemon can marry and have children before 184AC has come to a close, so can Elaena, meaning that Robin, the eldest of her four Penrose children (the other three were girls, Laena, Jocelyn and Joy), would be born in 184AC the earliest.

It sounds like Aelinor and Aerys were already married in 209AC, so there are 25 years in between the earliest moment of Robin's birth, and the moment where Aelinor should have been old enough to marry (12? 13?). If both Robin and Aelinor married young, this would work..

If not, then I guess she descents from one of Elaena's daughters, though she would only be called Penrose in such a situation if Robin died very young, and the house survived by having a ruling lady (one of Elaena's daughters in that case).

TY. Guess I need to start harassing the local bookstore to see where my copy of the book is.

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That's what I was thinking and knowing what we know of Bloodraven he probably might have had an agenda if he did indeed arrange the marriage. This also might changes some of the speculation regarding the relationship between Egg and Bloodraven.

After what we know that Egg married for love then I don't think that BRaven arranged the marriage. However he could had helped it happening ;) I don't know why but I find it very intriguing the fact that Egg imprisoned BR when he was only helping him.

Anyway, another funny moment. I think that Aerion is the D&E's novels Darkstar! :lol:

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Everyone has First Men blood. Stannis's mother was an Estermont. Mace's mom is a Redwyne. Doran's ancestors probably married an Yronwood at least once. Heck, even Arryns probably married a Royce. I don't think FM blood is that important.

But I wonder if it has to be "potent." The Targaryens have incest to ensure potency. The wildlings hardly interact with Andal families. What would the Starks have?

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Varamyr? Borroq? There are many wildling skinchangers.

I meant in the Seven Kingdoms, ASOIAF canon

It gives me great joy to read this thread. People once heatedly argued against the idea of skinchanging into a dragon now think that it is very cool for Dany to have some Blackwood ancestor, which suposedly makes her automatically a skinchanger.

People see what they want to see lol

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But I wonder if it has to be "potent." The Targaryens have incest to ensure potency. The wildlings hardly interact with Andal families. What would the Starks have?

Maybe, but surely the Blackwoods must have a lot of Andal blood in them, yet they produced Bloodraven.

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After what we know that Egg married for love then I don't think that BRaven arranged the marriage. However he could had helped it happening ;) I don't know why but I find it very intriguing the fact that Egg imprisoned BR when he was only helping him.

Anyway, another funny moment. I think that Aerion is the D&E's novels Darkstar! :lol:

That's what I mean, I wouldn't put it pass him either. :idea:

The whole imprisonment thing seems weird to me, there is obviously something there that we don't know of which will probably be explained in the later books. I do think that Bloodraven travels to the Wall was on purpose.

Maybe, but surely the Blackwoods must have a lot of Andal blood in them, yet they produced Bloodraven.

It's probably then that the combination of those two (Tagaryens and Blackwoods) what might of enhance whatever magic there is in the Blackwood bloodline.

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The trees should be considered as "out of text" -- as noted, not all marriages are shown. It'd have taken too much space to get into EVERYTHING.

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That's what I was thinking and knowing what we know of Bloodraven he probably might have had an agenda if he did indeed arrange the marriage. This also might changes some of the speculation regarding the relationship between Egg and Bloodraven.

As I said earlier in the thread I still doubt that dragons can be skin changed - we just wondered whether the ability might help with the bonding process. If you are going to make comments like the above please get your facts straight.

Even after reading about Battle Isle?? - its pretty clear(to me) that the Valyrians came to Westeros and were beaten back by the Children of the Forest(through skinchanging no doubt)

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