[TWOIAF Spoiler] Targaryen Lineage

[Lord Varys]

Yap. Viserra was betrothed to Lord Manderly, raced drunkenly through the streets of KL, and broke her neck, Maegelle became a septa, reunited her parents after the Second Quarrel in 92, and then died of greyscale in 96 AC. Saera was given to a Motherhouse, too, but ran away to the Free Cities - Lys first, then Volantis, where she ended her life as the proprietor of a brothel.

Vaegon the Dragonless became an Archmaester (golden mask). Alyssa married Baelon, and Daella Rodrik.

Princess Gael, the Winter Child, has the saddest story. She was the youngest child, and the most beloved by Alysanne. She was somewhat naive, although, apparently no real lackwit - could be mistaken. A wandering singer seduced her, impregnated her, and then left her, and she drowned herself in the Blackwater because she had nothing but a growing belly. Alysanne died about half a year later, her grief killed her.

Baelon the Brave (or the Spring Prince) died of a ruptured appendix, it seems. And Aemon was killed by pirates that had invaded the eastern half of Tarth.

[Colonel Green]

Incidentally, I think the dates provided here indicate that the modern Arryn line is descended from another of Lord Rodrik Arryn's marriages, not his union with Princess Daella, as they married in 80 AC, and she died in childbirth delivering Aemma, which we know happened in 82 AC. I suppose you could theoretically fit another pregnancy in there, but none is mentioned.

[Bael's Bastard]

I know but still from Vallarr to Daeron is a long way down.

Yeah, but there weren't a ton of options as far as available male Targs go. Baelor and his descendants were all dead, Aerys was married with no children, Rhaegel's son was IIRC already married to his sister, so Daeron seems to have been the highest up male Targ in the succession who was available (not sure when Maekar's wife died, but he doesn't seem to have entertained remarrying).

[Colonel Green]

(not sure when Maekar's wife died, but he doesn't seem to have entertained remarrying).

And, in any event, Maekar already had several sons, so marrying his heir Daeron is actually better than marrying Maekar himself, from an inheritance perspective, which is the point of these kinds of dynastic unions.

[The Red Widow of Coldmoat]

Maekar's wife died in or before 209 (Egg tells Dunk that his mother's dead when they first meet in The Hedge Knight)

[Jon's Queen Consort]

I find the marriages of the Targs much more interesting that the Targs. There is no major House except their kind of cadet branch, Baratheons, and their *enemies* Martells. No Lannister, no Tully, no Stark (!?!),no Tyrell and no Greyjoy (duh). I find their choices very interesting.

Yeah, but there weren't a ton of options as far as available male Targs go. Baelor and his descendants were all dead, Aerys was married with no children, Rhaegel's son was IIRC already married to his sister, so Daeron seems to have been the highest up male Targ in the succession who was available (not sure when Maekar's wife died, but he doesn't seem to have entertained remarrying).

Oh I can understand it. I was just saying that it was low.

[BearQueen87]

I find the marriages of the Targs much more interesting that the Targs. There is no major House except their kind of cadet branch, Baratheons, and their *enemies* Martells. No Lannister, no Tully, no Stark (!?!),no Tyrell and no Greyjoy (duh). I find their choices very interesting.

Perhaps trying to keep the power contained. You don't want the Major houses to suddenly have more power than the crown by way of marriage.

[BearQueen87]

DP

[Ingelheim]

I find the marriages of the Targs much more interesting that the Targs. There is no major House except their kind of cadet branch, Baratheons, and their *enemies* Martells. No Lannister, no Tully, no Stark (!?!),no Tyrell and no Greyjoy (duh). I find their choices very interesting.

Greyjoys have never been interested in Westeros affairs. The rest is pretty much explained if you think that any son of a Targaryen and a Great House would have unlimited power.

[Colonel Green]

I find the marriages of the Targs much more interesting that the Targs. There is no major House except their kind of cadet branch, Baratheons, and their *enemies* Martells. No Lannister, no Tully, no Stark (!?!),no Tyrell and no Greyjoy (duh). I find their choices very interesting.

Cregan Stark was promised a Targaryen princess to wife by Prince Jacaerys during his visit to gain his support during the Dance, though this wasn't honoured.

Which, now that I think about it, presumably would have had to have been Rhaena or Baela, unless they were going to sell him the lackwit Jaehaera after winning the war. Is that meant to be an additional level of irony concerning the death of Prince Lucerys, who honourably declined to break his betrothal agreement and wed one of Lord Boros' daughters, while Prince Jacaerys had already either been authorized to do so or did so on his own initiative when conducting identical negotations with Cregan?

And, of course, Egg arranged Tully and Tyrell marriages, which didn't happen becuse of his kids.

[Liz Stark-Targaryen]

Damn. I really remember all that stuff. Please kill me...

Not a chance - you ROCK for getting that family tree info together so quickly! Thanks!

Well, everybody in Westeros has First Men blood. Stannis's mother is from a First Men House.

I strongly doubt Targs having FM blood like everybody else will matter.

Actually it does matter. I love this because it refutes the claim that the Targaryens were not Westerosi 300 years post-Conquest. Given this new information, I'd say they became more of a hybrid house. The Dornish aren't 100% Rhoynar, but they did retain lots of Rhoynish customs from the time of Nymeria and her people. Same with the Targs -- they're not 100% dragonlord anymore, but had intermarried with other noble houses.

It goes beyond just intermarriage as a power move. Some see it as preventing younger sons who are children of LPs from staking a claim to the throne; I see their marriage into Westerosi vassal houses as not being as exclusive as their detractors claim. (Then again, I've always seen their decision to marry into Dorne as proof of this, too -- if every generation of Targs were so afraid to taint the blood, there's no way they would have tolerated marriage into a family of Rhoynish descent.)

Finally, the new information shows that while incest was still practiced by the Targs, it wasn't every generation even when there were incestuous options. That was different than in the generations immediately post-Doom, where you have much more intermarriage, or marriage only into Valyrian houses like the Velaryons. And we know now that Westerosi married incredibly close kin, only refraining from sibling marriage - even the Starks married first cousins, and we've got at least one uncle/niece marriage.

Aerys seemed to be a snob in this regard -- how on earth did his granddaughter Rhaenys "smell Dornish"? -- but not all Targs felt this way.

And any children of Duncan with Jenny are also not mentioned. Perhaps some/all of them died at Summerhall? I'd find it peculiar if they did not have any children at all. Rhaegar is confirmed to be Egg's first great-grandson, but it is nowhere stated that Aerys and Rhaella were his only grandchildren.

Well, we know that Steffon is Egg's grandson, too... Aerys and Steffon were first cousins, which is why I've always thought he was entrusted with the doomed Find Rhaegar a Ride Essosi mission. The loss of Steffon was huge because had he lived, I doubt RR would have happened -- Robert as LP got to choose Lyanna for himself, and negotiate with Rickard Stark -- his BFF/brother's father -- on his own behalf.

If Robert's parents had lived, not sure that Steffon would have agreed to a match with the Starks. Given that we have no canon evidence that he wasn't loyal to his cousin, the most logical match for Robert would have been Cersei, especially given the bad blood between Aerys and Tywin. Speculating that Steffon was a bit more diplomatic than his cousin or his eldest son, I could easily see him brokering the match with Tywin that happened post-Rebellion anyway.

So, assuming these infos, which houses have or could have a claim to the throne?

Martell

Tarth

Velaryon

Penrose

Plumm

Hightower

Corbray

Manwoody

and Baratheon of course. Through these houses is also possible that royal blood has spreaded in a lot more houses, but these seems to have the better claims. Have I forgotten other?

It's not just that all these Houses have viable claims. TWOIAF just exploded the argument that House Targaryen isn't really Westerosi. In 1 AC, of course it wasn't. By 300 AC, Dany has just as much First Men/Andal blood as she does Valyrian -- and Aegon, if he's real, only is 1/4 Valyrian.

It appears from the number of marriages with other houses and additional Targs we are just now learning about that EVERYONE is a not-so-secret Targaryen.

:lmao: I love it!

[Lord Varys]

I guess Cregan could have had Baela after the Dance but he apparently fell in love with Black Aly and married her. Jace possibly promised Cregan his daughter, sister, or niece. There is no reason to believe that he had the authority to dissolve his own betrothal to Baela.

[Colonel Green]

I guess Cregan could have had Baela after the Dance but he apparently fell in love with Black Aly and married her. Jace possibly promised Cregan his daughter, sister, or niece. There is no reason to believe that he had the authority to dissolve his own betrothal to Baela.

Cregan would have been a fool to take a promise to marry Jacaerys' hypothetical daughter or niece in like 15 years; he'd have no way of knowing he'd even be alive that long, or what Jacaerys would even have a daughter, and at this point he had at most one child (if he had already been married to Arra Norrey), or none at all.

If Jacaerys returned from the North saying he'd secured their loyalty at the expense of his betrothal, the Queen and Prince Daemon would basically have to ratify that arrangement.

[Lord Varys]

Well, we don't know if this Pact of Ice and Fire referred to Cregan or one of his sons. Cregan was Lord of Winterfell and born in 108 AC. He should already have been married, or at least betrothed. His wife could have died during the Dance/in the winter.

[MoIaF]

Snip

This is awesome - thank you so much. If you don't mind I'll add these to the OP.

[Lord Varys]

Go along!

[MoIaF]

wow wow wow wow wow wow... yes!

hah.

HAH.

HAH.

They borth show up in the World book, just sayin' :devil:

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

I find the list of Aegon IV's acknowledged bastards is still missing here :) There were a lot more acknowledged children than I expected, I loved the little tidbits :)

- By Daena Targaryen: Daemon Waters, later named Daemon Blackfyre, born in 170AC

- By Falena Stokeworth: none acknowledged, but Jeyne Lothston was rumoured to have been Aegon's child

- By Megette (Merry Meg): Alysanne, Lily, Willow and Rosey, born in between 155AC and 159AC.

- By Cassella Vaith: no issue

- By Bellegere Otherys: Bellanora, Narha, Balerion, born in between 161AC and 171AC.

- By Barba Bracken: Aegor Rivers (Bittersteel), born in 172AC

- By Melissa Blackwood (Missy): Mya, Gwenys, Brynden (Bloodraven), born in between 172AC and 177AC (Bloodravens birth is specified to have been in 175AC)

- By Bethay Bracken: no issue

- By Jeyne Lothston: no issue (this is the girl rumoured to have been Aegon's own daugher).

- By Serenei of Lys (Sweet Serenei): Shiera

I found the two sisters of Bloodraven the most interesting to learn about, personally. I wonder what happened to them..

[Lord Varys]

Thanks, Rhaenys. I do like to focus and the right side of the blanket ;-).

A few additional tidbits:

The story of Falena Stokeworth is essentially the story of the founding of House Lothston. When Viserys caught the two, he married Falena to Lucas Lothston, the master-of-arms of the Red Keep, and convinced Aegon III - that was back in 153 AC - to name him the new Lord of Harrenhal. It is implied that Aegon is the father or some (or all) of the children of Falena's.

Falena's daughter Jeyne becomes Aegon's second last mistress and it is said that mother and daughter both entertained the king together.

All of Megette's children are given to the Faith. She is returned to her husband, a blacksmith, by Viserys, and the man beats her to death within a year.

The paternity of Bellegere's son Balerion is in doubt. Bellegere had lovers in any port, and that guy would have been older than Daemon Waters.

Bethany was Barbra's younger sister, 'the other Bracken girl', who specifically trained to displace Missy Blackwood. She was the mistress who was found abed with Terrence Toyne.

The fate of Bloodraven's sisters would interesting indeed...

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

The Stokeworth/Lothston situation is a bit strange. Aegon begins his affair with Falena in 149AC, and it lasted for two years until they were discovered abed (151AC). Falena was married to Lothston, and Lothston was given Harrenhal, so Falena woudl be removed from court. Aegon was said to have visited frequently over the next two years (151-153).

Jeyne, in 178AC, is 14 years old, placing her birth in 164AC.. Far away from Aegon's frequent visits to Harrenhal..

Though between 161AC and 171AC, Aegon had an affair with Bellegere Otherys, the rumours seem to be based on the idea that Aegon also slept with Falena during this time.. Possible, as Bellegere wouldn't constantly be in Westeros... But still, the wording was a bit strange..