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Lord Knightmare

[TWOIAF Spoilers] Discussions of TWOIAF

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Not necessarily. All historic troop numbers regarding Dorne is probably inflated och unreliable. If the maesters knew Dorne's total troop number then would the Lords of Westeros also know about that.

If this is true, then you could make that argument for all of the armies and numbers we have encountered. However, there had to be some basis for the maester giving this accounting. Battlefield reports, troop compositions, etc. The conquest of Dorne was likely inflated, but that does not mean the same for every conflict in which Dorne was involved.

The majority of stuff in the book relating to Tywin/Aerys is heavily biased. While the general facts were probably true (i.e. Tywin fought in the Stepstones and knighted Aerys, he and Aerys disagreed quite often as Hand/King) are probably true, Tywin is obviously made it to be this perfect man. Partly because the main source is Pycelle, partly because "in-universe" Tywin was probably still alive when this was completed. At least that was my take.

1+2+3: keep in mind that the main source for most things Tywin/Aerys is Pycelle, who is heavily Lannister-biased to start with. Second, Yandel would have needed to keep all critisism to the Lannister to a minimum, as offending the family of the Queen would not to well.

4:

Numbers of the North: Keep in mind that Thorren had the better part of two years to gather his fighters. Robb Stark only had a few weeks. But you are right to state that there might be more fighters left in the North currently, than some people suspect.

Numbers of the Vulture King: Good point.

6: Unfortunately, the opinions haven't changed. Those who believe in A+J=T are now more convinced than ever that the theory is true, whilst those who disagree with A+J=T are now more convinced than ever that the theory isn't true.. Funny how that goes.

Yes.

1. Bias and inaccuracy are two different things. I’m more concerned with inaccuracy. What specifically did you find to be inaccurate? I did not detect any outright lies from Pycelle and Yandel.

2. Yes, that was my whole point. Many people are having trouble believing that the North is still capable of waging war. I just wanted to key-in on historical troop numbers. Population usually increases over time.

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Today Braavos is one of the world’s greatest ports and welcomes trading ships of all nations (save for slavers).


That means that Braavos only embargoes Slave ships, not ships from slavers, right?


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Well, I noticed that almost every character in the Iron Islands's storylines has a doppelganger in the past.



Harwyn Hoare= Euron Greyjoy


That Hoare that was tortured and became mad because of torture, while being robbed of his rightful seat= Theon


The father of that Hoare= Rodrik Harlaw


Many, many priests= Aeron Greyjoy


Quellon Greyjoy= Victarion Greyjoy all over again


Balon Greyjoy= Maybe the Red Kraken...



The only character that escapes this rule may be Asha, because of the sexism of the ironborn. It also may give clues about what's happenning to each character...



Edit: Dammit, this was for another thread XD


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1. Bias and inaccuracy are two different things. I’m more concerned with inaccuracy. What specifically did you find to be inaccurate? I did not detect any outright lies from Pycelle and Yandel.

Outright lies? No, those aren't in there, as far as I have been able to detect. But stuff like "[Tywin Lannister was] not accustomed to feasting upon another man's leavings", or the suggestion about Elia having killed her own children in the brutal way they have been killed in... It's a book originally written for Robert, yet the Sack is downplayed extremely, Lyanna is barely mentioned..

They are not outright lies.. But I doubt they are 100% accurate and honest either ;) Which is why I said biased, and not inaccurate.

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wow this sounds awesome can't wait to get my copy. I always put aegon I as my level of badassery for the entire series but now it seems i must add this theon stark in that same tier.



oh many visenya and rhaenys sound even more epic can anyone tell me anymore about them?



How did daeron treat the other great bastards too?


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wow this sounds awesome can't wait to get my copy. I always put aegon I as my level of badassery for the entire series but now it seems i must add this theon stark in that same tier.

oh many visenya and rhaenys sound even more epic can anyone tell me anymore about them?

How did daeron treat the other great bastards too?

He treated all of his father's bastards very well, it seems, Daemon Blackfyre included.

The stories about Daeron the Good treating Daemon badly seem to be fabrications by the latter's supporters; Aegon IV married Daemon to the daughter of the Archon of Tyrosh and Daemon had a bunch of children with her years before Daeron sent princess Daenerys to Dorne, and Daemon's wife was still alive and well when Daemon started his rebellion...what did he expect Daeron to do? Divorce isn't allowed by the Faith, same as polygamy and both would have provoked troubles with the Faith, with Tyrosh and with Dorne. And anyways, if Daemon loved Daenerys and didn't want his tyroshi wife, he should have thought about it before making seven babies with the latter.

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He treated all of his father's bastards very well, it seems, Daemon Blackfyre included.

The stories about Daeron the Good treating Daemon badly seem to be fabrications by his the latter's supporters; Aegon IV married Daemon to the daughter of the Archon of Tyrosh and Daemon had a bunch of children with her years before Daeron sent princess Daenerys to Dorne, and Daemon's wife was still alive and well when Daemon started his rebellion...what did he expect Daeron to do? Divorce isn't allowed by the Faith, same as polygamym and both would have provoked troubles with the Faith, with Tyrosh and with Dorne. And anyways, if Daemon loved Daenerys and didn't want his tyroshi wife, he should have thought about it before making seven babies with the latter.

The whole Daenerys as a motivation for the Blackfyre Rebellion thing seems like a later invention of singers and Blackfyre supporters.

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Well, I noticed that almost every character in the Iron Islands's storylines has a doppelganger in the past.

Harwyn Hoare= Euron Greyjoy

That Hoare that was tortured and became mad because of torture, while being robbed of his rightful seat= Theon

The father of that Hoare= Rodrik Harlaw

Many, many priests= Aeron Greyjoy

Quellon Greyjoy= Victarion Greyjoy all over again

Balon Greyjoy= Maybe the Red Kraken...

The only character that escapes this rule may be Asha, because of the sexism of the ironborn. It also may give clues about what's happenning to each character...

Edit: Dammit, this was for another thread XD

Actually Quellon reminded me of Rodrik Harlaw more than any Greyjoy and I think he would not be very proud if he could see what his sons are doing and have done. Really the only thing he and Victarion have in common is they were big and stubborn.

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Since you brought up the Harlaws, I wonder how they got Nightfall from the Greyjoys. Somehow through marriage? Though obviously not the marriage of Alannys to Balon.


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Since you brought up the Harlaws, I wonder how they got Nightfall from the Greyjoys. Somehow through marriage? Though obviously not the marriage of Alannys to Balon.

Do we know how came out on top after the succession crisis when Dalton Greyjoy died? Maybe the Harlaws backed one of his salt sons, who would of been too young for a sword, and just decided to keep the sword as a reward.

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He treated all of his father's bastards very well, it seems, Daemon Blackfyre included.

The stories about Daeron the Good treating Daemon badly seem to be fabrications by his the latter's supporters; Aegon IV married Daemon to the daughter of the Archon of Tyrosh and Daemon had a bunch of children with her years before Daeron sent princess Daenerys to Dorne, and Daemon's wife was still alive and well when Daemon started his rebellion...what did he expect Daeron to do? Divorce isn't allowed by the Faith, same as polygamy and both would have provoked troubles with the Faith, with Tyrosh and with Dorne. And anyways, if Daemon loved Daenerys and didn't want his tyroshi wife, he should have thought about it before making seven babies with the latter.

wow thanks seems his nickname of the good was well earned so it is pretty much a given now that he was the brother that bloodraven loved then?

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For his loyalty and courage, he was named Protector of the Realm and Hand of the King following Maegor's streange death upon the Iron Throne. During the remainder of King Jaehaerys' minority, Lord Robar shared the ryle of the realm with the king's mother, the Dowager Queen Alyssa. Half a year later the two wed.



Do I understand it correctly here, and did Robar and Alyssa wed half a year after Jaehaerys' reached majority (50AC)?


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That's how it appears to me.



Queen Alyssa had quite a span between her first and last children. She wed Aenys I in 22 AC, and presumably Rhaena was born soon after, whereas Jocelyn and Boremund Barathon would have been born about 30 years later.


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That's how it appears to me.

Queen Alyssa had quite a span between her first and last children. She wed Aenys I in 22 AC, and presumably Aegon was born soon after, whereas Jocelyn and Boremund Barathon would have been born about 30 years later.

Indeed.. Rhaena was born in 23AC, IIRC, and Aegon in 26AC (Viserys in 29AC, Jaehaerys in 34AC, Alysanne in 36AC and Vaella in 39AC, if memory serves me right).

Jocelyn and Boremund would have been born then in 51AC or after (with Boremund the eldest, and Jocelyn the youngest).

Seeing as how Alyssa's son by Robar inherits, I do wonder what happened to Robars other children, if anything happened there at all... Alyssa would have been in her 40ties, perhaps already pushing 50. That's a dangerous match, for a man without heirs, as the woman migth be unable to conceive, yet might live for quite a number of years (which would leave Robar without an heir for quite some time)

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Alyssa must have been getting on in years by the time Jocelyn and Boremund were born. How old was she when she married Aenys?

ETA: Beaten to it by Rhaenys_T

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Ah, according to the notes from Lord Varys about The Sons of the Dragon, Alyssa was also 15 years old in 22AC when she got wed (meaning that, like Aenys, she was also born in 7AC).



So when she got married in 50AC to Robar, she was already 43 years old, birthed him his heir at the minimum age of 44AC (he could have been born only after a few years of marriage), and Jocelyn would then have followed..


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Was Robar an only child? Maybe he married for love knowing he had brothers with kids. But in the end it all worked out fine and he got his love and offspring.


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