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Lord Knightmare

[TWOIAF Spoilers] Discussions of TWOIAF

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Spoiler thread, no tags needed :)

They explain why the Valyrians never conquered Westeros:

In fact, the Valyrians invaded and conquered Dorne and the southern Reach thousands of years ago and founded Oldtown (or consolidated a port already in use by natives of the Reach and traders from the Summer Islands, Ibben and Essos), building the lower level of what is now the High Tower. However, two prophecies were made which drove them from the continent. The first was that the Doom of Man would come from Westeros - the Others? - and that they should not be there. The second was that the gold of Casterly Rock would destroy the Valyrians. They chose to leave rather than risk it. The latter seems to be a reference to the betrayal of the Targaryens by Tywin Lannister during Robert's Rebellion.

Nice. Although it's getting a little bit tiresome that every other niggling backstory mystery is being answered with "because of some prophecy hitherto unmentioned".

Also wrt to the seasons:

The book hints that the world used to have regular seasons before the Long Night. There's also a testy maester account of the seasons being unable to be explained by science, and confirmation that the world is round, both of which sound like GRRM trying to head off any future debate on those matters.

The Doom of Valyria:

The books hints that the Faceless Men, the sect which began as slaves toiling beneath the Fourteen Fires, assassinated the Valyrian sorcerers whose job it was to maintain the spells that prevented the volcanoes from exploding. With them dead, the Fourteen Fires went kaboom and blew up the entire peninsula. There's several other possibilities, but this seems the most logical one given what we know from AFFC and the Valyrians' own apparent ignorance that the sorcerous traditions were needed to stop the volcanoes blowing up.

Also, GRRM drops some more Lovecraft references:

According to legend, the Old Ones live under the island of Leng in the Jade Sea and anyone who descends into the tunnels under the island goes insane and dies horribly. The Yi Ti emperors got so fed up with this they walled off all the passages and pretend it never happens. Carcosa is also namedropped as a place where a renegade Yi Ti warlord is building up an army, just to confuse True Detective fans.

Thank you very much.

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In fact, the Valyrians invaded and conquered Dorne and the southern Reach thousands of years ago and founded Oldtown (or consolidated a port already in use by natives of the Reach and traders from the Summer Islands, Ibben and Essos), building the lower level of what is now the High Tower. However, two prophecies were made which drove them from the continent. The first was that the Doom of Man would come from Westeros - the Others? - and that they should not be there. The second was that the gold of Casterly Rock would destroy the Valyrians. They chose to leave rather than risk it. The latter seems to be a reference to the betrayal of the Targaryens by Tywin Lannister during Robert's Rebellion.

So Tywin Lannister scared the Valyrians out of Westeros before he was even born

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Oh God, I know, it actually absolutely means nothing, but I looove the fact that a son of Orys Baratheon was named Davos, so there existed a Davos Baratheon and now exists a Stannis Seaworth, that's my new favourite fact! :bowdown:

I agree. All those Stavos shippers much be so happy with that.

Also Davos Dayne? :bowdown:

No words for the Daynes and Reeds. Meh.

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Er, so, looking at the Lannister lineage... was Rohanne Webber of the Dunk and Eggs books Tywin Lannister's grandmother?

Explains a lot if true.

Jaime's great grandmother and Brienne's great grandfather sitting in the tree K.I.S.S.I.N.G.!

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Strange we got no Dayne words considering Ran said GRRM wanted to get them just right. We always assumed it was for this. Especially with no Edric or (it looks like) Darkstar in the TV show which suggests the Daynes may fall into the realm of 'cool as hell background mythology'


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When a claim is attributed to Septon Barth, take that as a hard fact. At least it seems that way from what I read upto the Dance of Dragons.


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Aerys wanting to build a second wall deep in wildling territory was creepy.

It's a reference to the Antonine Wall in Britain, which the Romans built north of Hadrian's Wall, then later abandoned.

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I agree. All those Stavos shippers much be so happy with that.

Also Davos Dayne? :bowdown:

No words for the Daynes and Reeds. Meh.

There is also a Davos the Dragonslayer listed as one of the fearless ancient warriors of the Reach.

I've seen suggested that he saved Rhaegar.

I would agree with that, but, if we can take the picture of the burning Summerhall as accurate, Rhaegar was born outside the castle after the fire started. So he rather saved Rhaelle.

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When a claim is attributed to Septon Barth, take that as a hard fact. At least it seems that way from what I read upto the Dance of Dragons.

I have to admit that I'm quite surprised how many things attributed to Barth seems fairly accurate. It's definitely not a stance I've had with him before.

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