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Lord Knightmare

[TWOIAF Spoilers] Discussions of TWOIAF

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Daeron the first time. He beat them twice and they agreed to swear fealty once more, but under peace banner struck him down.

Oh right I didn't see that, thanks.

Oh well, it's not like they were friends or allies *shrugs*.

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Theon made common cause with the Boltons to smash the Andal warlord Argos Sevenstar at the Battle of the Weeping Water and Theon kicked his ass , after that he raised his own fleet and crossed the narrow sea to Andalos , with Argos's corpse lashed to the prow of his flagship. Theon took a bloody vengeance in Andalos he destroyed a score of villages , captured three tower houses and a sept , and put hundreds to the swords , the heads of the slain he carried them back to The North where he planted them on spikes along his own coasts as a warning to the other Andals . After that he conquered the Three Sisters , kicked the ironborn from Cape Kraken and Bear Island , put down a rebellion in the Rills , in the end he joined the NW and went beyond the Wall and broke the power of the wildlings for a generation !!!! :rofl:

Oh man, he sounds like a badass!

I think I've found my new favourite Stark. Hard as hell, those poor Andal villages didn't deserve it but I guess the Andals massacred a heap of First Men well...first. Between the Hungry Wolf and Ice Eyes, Arya has something to live up to when it comes to vengeance.

I wouldn't worry. I suspect that by the end of ADOS, Arya would even impress the Hungry Wolf himself. What she did with Raff is not even the beginning. :devil: .

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Well, Arya is not a lord so she's going to be limited in the amount of vengeance she can achieve. I've said this elsewhere but with the other options the KM gave her she could have potentially used those to get vengeance but she was not interested. For instance, since Tywin had so much power (money, position, an army) he's much more effective on the vengeance front. Of course morally Theon and Tywin do way more damage than Arya since they have more power to do so.



ETA: To expand Theon was able to kill entire Andal villages and he had the means to get to them on a timely manner. That takes an army and money which she does not have. Oh, and as men they would be educated in tactics/strategies.



I've also said when she's been critiqued on vengeance it's really nothing in comparison to some others. Theon makes her vengeance wishes look small especially since so far she hasn't killed anyone where her house could benefit and IRL you have people like Olga of Kiev who were far worse than her but Olga managed to make herself regarded as a saint despite that. She was a ruler though so she had power.


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* Baelor's walk to Dorne and saving Aemon, BADASS



* Seeing how brutal Dorne was the second time Aegon invaded



* Duncan vs Lyonel Baratheon (I was fucking shocked)



* Visenya, creator of the Kingsguard, makes perfect sense



* Jaehaerys was a great warrior too? Can this man get any more awesome?

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Oh, that reminds me Baelor seemed off even before the snake bites. His complete calmness about the obvious danger sounds like typical extreme delusion.


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* Baelor's walk to Dorne and saving Aemon, BADASS

* Seeing how brutal Dorne was the second time Aegon invaded

* Duncan vs Lyonel Baratheon (I was fucking shocked)

* Visenya, creator of the Kingsguard, makes perfect sense

* Jaehaerys was a great warrior too? Can this man get any more awesome?

He'll always go down a notch in my view for passing over Rhaenys. I think she could have been a real game changing ruler for Westeros, much like I think its a real shame Baelor Breakspear never got his crack at it. Both of them seem like real missed opportunities.

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He'll always go down a notch in my view for passing over Rhaenys. I think she could have been a real game changing ruler for Westeros, much like I think its a real shame Baelor Breakspear never got his crack at it. Both of them seem like real missed opportunities.

We really don't know much about Rhaenys beyond that she was an experienced warrior, so it's hard to say what her qualities as a ruler would have been (Baelon, who he picked over Rhaenys, was evidently an able Hand).

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He'll always go down a notch in my view for passing over Rhaenys. I think she could have been a real game changing ruler for Westeros, much like I think its a real shame Baelor Breakspear never got his crack at it. Both of them seem like real missed opportunities.

At first I thought the same thing, but I can kinda understand where he was coming from.

Jaehaerys had already worked hard for several reforms and appointing a female ruler in the extremely sexist Westeros might have been too much.

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The Targaryen dragons would probably have secured that succession (assuming nobody challenged it, but that would have had to have been Baelon or Viserys, and they don't really seem like the types, from what we know of them), but if the nobility really was against the idea by a factor of 20/1 (and that was when they were considered Viserys vs. Laenor), it's easy to see why Jaehaerys went the way he did. He's known as "the Conciliator", after all.



Granted, Viserys I was subsequently able to bring at least half the realm onboard with a much more extreme change (favouring a daughter over a son), so perhaps it might have worked out okay regardless.



Though I thought it was kind of ironic that the Starks backed Rhaenys' claim, yet Lord Cregan appears to have subsequently done exactly the same thing that Jaehaerys did in passing over his granddaughters for his younger sons.


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Granted, Viserys I was subsequently able to bring at least half the realm onboard with a much more extreme change (favouring a daughter over a son), so perhaps it might have worked out okay regardless.

Which lead to other half to going the war with the first.

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At first I thought the same thing, but I can kinda understand where he was coming from.

Jaehaerys had already worked hard for several reforms and appointing a female ruler in the extremely sexist Westeros might have been too much.

It's not that I disagree with this. I just feel she had backing from two paramount houses and Alysanne she seemed capable and the smallfolk do remember her as the Queen who never was so there must have been support for her there too perhaps. Also unlike the next Queen Regnant hopeful Rhaenyra she was a warrior, so may have been able to get the Lords onside in the end once she'd proved herself to them. I just feel it was a missed opportunity that really could have set Westeros on a different path.

Especially after reading about Nymeria in Dorne and how successful she was. I know her task was made easier by bringing like minded people with her but all it takes is one good person and change can follow. Especially as she'd have inherited a realm that was prospering. If Jaehearys had supported her claim and stood by her it might have worked. I guess it's one of those great what ifs along with Baelor.

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It's not that I disagree with this. I just feel she had backing from two paramount houses and Alysanne she seemed capable and the smallfolk do remember her as the Queen who never was so there must have been support for her there too perhaps. Also unlike the next Queen Regnant hopeful Rhaenyra she was a warrior, so may have been able to get the Lords onside in the end once she'd proved herself to them. I just feel it was a missed opportunity that really could have set Westeros on a different path.

Especially after reading about Nymeria in Dorne and how successful she was. I know her task was made easier by bringing like minded people with her but all it takes is one good person and change can follow. Especially as she'd have inherited a realm that was prospering. If Jaehearys had supported her claim and stood by her it might have worked. I guess it's one of those great what ifs along with Baelor.

Yeah I fully agree with this post. However about the Nymeria thing, keep in mind that even in the current Westeros, the rest of Westeros does not like Dornish customs like women being equal to men for instance. But you're right in that if Jaehaerys supported Rhaenys the rest of Westeros might be a lot more advanced in social norms.

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Which lead to other half to going the war with the first.

Yes, but, like I said, that was far more extreme, and there was actually an immediate male claimant pushing an alternative. We don't know much about Baelon, admittedly, but Viserys doesn't seem like he would have violently contested the succession.

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I have a couple questions for Ran about the eastern lands.

I know that the further east you go, the information becomes more like tales rather than reliable reports, but the Ibbenese visit Westeros often, and they should be well-known around there...is it true that they can't interbreed with other human races? I never got the impression that they were a separate species while reading the books, just hairy sailors...

I thought Davos mentioned in Dance, when visiting White Harbor, that the captain of the ship he was on, or of a ship he previously sailed on, was the offspring of a dockside whore and an Ibbenese sailor?

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So the Martell words are not really accurate - The did bend and swear fealty to Daeron. They just broke their oath as soon as his back was turned (Not to mention the false peace banner). I ended up not really liking Dorne in this book.


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Jaehaerys I was very cool. Then, he was portrayed with a kick ass beard. He got even cooler.



I'm kinda shocked at Aerys II having mistresses. I thought him to be a more of a "argh... don't touch me with your unworthy paws, I'm a dragon!" kinda guy. I was wrong. Despite some assholes, I think mostly of the Targ Kings have been actually loyal and faithful and kept it to one bed (with those wives, it's understandable!).





Some thoughts: Baelor was kind of a badass.



Man, Dornish can pull a mean Frey.



By my stars and garter, Rhaegar Targaryen didn't actually leave his wife with Aerys. Was it okay when he got back? No. But it takes a sin away.



Well Aegon IV was really was the greatest pig of his day, I would not be surprised if KL people all descend from him.



Aerys was really a ladies man, wonder if he has a bastard about.



All hail Gaemon, the food fighter.



All men named Davos most be awesome.



Blakfyres really should have stopped listening to Aegor. Aenys was truly the wisest and his death tragic.








I was right about Rhaegar! :P *dances* I think the book offers a new side of him, more possitive, which I suppose was right as this book was intended for Robert. They could have used anything to put him under a negative live, which apparently was impossible right until the moment of the "kidnapping".






In a letter to the Citadel, Pycelle wrote that the divisions within the Red Keep reminded him uncomfortably of the situation before the Dance of the Dragons a century before, when the enmity between Queen Alicent and Princess Rhaenyra had split the realm in two, to grievous cost. A similarly bloody conflict might await the Seven Kingdoms once again, he warned, unless some accord could be reached that would satisfy both Prince Rhaegar’s supporters and the king’s.



Martin, George R.R.; Garcia, Elio; Antonsson, Linda (2014-10-28). The World of Ice & Fire: The Untold History of Westeros and the Game of Thrones (A Song of Ice and Fire) (Kindle Locations 3588-3591). Random House Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.



In short, Pycelle said “Guys, we are on the right track.”






:lol:





I liked how Visenya saved Aegon from Assasins in KL in 10 AC. With Dark Sister of course :D . Such a badass





Visenya is amazing. I loved how he cut Aegon's face. I would have paid anything to see his "wtf, bitch, what's your problem?!" face, only to say later "ok, you're right".


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Tywin seemed like a way different man to me, he put up with so much shit from Aerys and seemed to solve most problems with diplomacy instead of violence. I can't believe he didn't just storm Duskendale with the intent of getting his douchebag king killed so they could crown Rhaegar.

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Tywin seemed like a way different man to me, he put up with so much shit from Aerys and seemed to solve most problems with diplomacy instead of violence. I can't believe he didn't just storm Duskendale with the intent of getting his douchebag king killed so they could crown Rhaegar.

This book is written for Cersei IIRC. Of course they wrote Tywin in a really good light.

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