[TWOIAF SPOILERS] what was in Prince Nymor's letter to Aegon the Conqueror?

[JonCon's Red Beard]

But structurally, both uses of word the "it" go back to the letter.

He read it ... so hard had he clutched it.

If it is referring to the Iron Throne, it's structured awkwardly, because the way it's written, the "it" should go back to referring to the letter.

he could have also clutched his own hand, and got hurt with his nails. "when he rose, his hand was bleeding, so hard had he clenched it."

[Faint]

Talk about getting lost in the minutiae.

[Ser Arthur Hightower]

Wyls are nasty. They cut off Orys hand to.

Just look at their sigil.

Yeah, my appreciation for house Martell and their bannermen/women dropped considerably whilst reading about it, essentially Mariya Martell refused fealty for her own pride, even though Aegon was willing to let the Kingdoms keep their own laws, traditions and rulers, causing her lands to burn, which in turn led to her vassals ignoring all the rules of chivalry and medieval warfare, torturing, maiming and mutilating prisoners, which in turn led to like treatment of Dornish prisoners.

200 years later it's all for nought because Dorne is under the authority of the Iron Throne under terms they mostly could have got anyway.

[Red Tiger]

Yeah, my appreciation for house Martell and their bannermen/women dropped considerably whilst reading about it, essentially Mariya Martell refused fealty for her own pride, even though Aegon was willing to let the Kingdoms keep their own laws, traditions and rulers, causing her lands to burn, which in turn led to her vassals ignoring all the rules of chivalry and medieval warfare, torturing, maiming and mutilating prisoners, which in turn led to like treatment of Dornish prisoners.

200 years later it's all for nought because Dorne is under the authority of the Iron Throne under terms they mostly could have got anyway.

I must have missed this, where did it say this?

[Ser Arthur Hightower]

I must have missed this, where did it say this?

He did nothing to centralise the laws of the seven kingdoms, he allowed each region to keep its own laws, traditions and gods. It is nowhere said that he would have made that deal with the dornish, but if she had been willing to negotiate like Torrhen was then she probably could have got a very good deal for Dorne.

[Red Tiger]

He did nothing to centralise the laws of the seven kingdoms, he allowed each region to keep its own laws, traditions and gods. It is nowhere said that he would have made that deal with the dornish, but if she had been willing to negotiate like Torrhen was then she probably could have got a very good deal for Dorne.

That's not a good comparison. The Andals and the First Men had very similar customs, like the first son coming before any daughter so that would have been an easy sell. Dorne's very different from the rest of Westeros with customs like the first child being the heir, the practice of open homosexuality (which is a giant no-no almost anywhere else and only allowed discreetly in the Reach), the regarding of bastards as normal people and paramours as real partners.

You should also keep in mind that the Rhoynar and Valyrians have clashed before in ancient times, which lead to the destruction of most of the Rhoynar, so they have some good reasons for not entirely being comfortable with Targaryen rule.

[Bennis of the Brown Shield]

I don't think the Rhaenys explanation makes sense at all. If that had been in the letter, he could just have declared war on Dorne again after getting confirmation that they killed her. This time also wanting vengeance for them doing that.

The Faceless Man threat I guess could be more likely.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Perhaps in the letter was the Rhaenys story, with the statement that her suffering would end if Aegon stopped the war. And that if, should Aegon continue his war later on, they would have Aenys suffer a fate far worse than Rhaenys had over those three years..

[Bennis of the Brown Shield]

Perhaps in the letter was the Rhaenys story, with the statement that her suffering would end if Aegon stopped the war. And that if, should Aegon continue his war later on, they would have Aenys suffer a fate far worse than Rhaenys had over those three years..

It would have been an empty threat, unless Aegon planned to have Aenys attack Dornish castles on his dragon anytime soon.

Even this doesn't seem to have been all that dangerous though, considering that Aegon and Visenya had already managed to turn Dorne into a "blighted ruin" from theirs. I guess Rhaenys was careless or unlucky. Either way that threat isn't credible. Anyone can torture people if he manages to get his hands on them.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

It would have been an empty threat, unless Aegon planned to have Aenys attack Dornish castles on his dragon anytime soon.

Aenys wouldn't have to fight in Dorne. He could be kidnapped from KL, for example.

[Bennis of the Brown Shield]

Aenys wouldn't have to fight in Dorne. He could be kidnapped from KL, for example.

Could. The Dornish had already tried assassinating Aegon numerous times without succeeding, there's nothing saying they'd do any better trying to capture Aenys. The Faceless Men threat is more viable in that they are reputed to never miss their mark, and that they'd give Aegon an incentive to actually uphold the peace afterwards since the Dornish could always contact them again if they wanted to.

[RumHam]

Could. The Dornish had already tried assassinating Aegon numerous times without succeeding, there's nothing saying they'd do any better trying to capture Aenys. The Faceless Men threat is more viable in that they are reputed to never miss their mark, and that they'd give Aegon an incentive to actually uphold the peace afterwards since the Dornish could always contact them again if they wanted to.

There has to be a reason why the Faceless Men aren't just the go to answer anytime anybody is losing a war. We're actually given that answer in Game of Thrones when they are talking about killing Daenerys. They would want a lot from Dorne. Maybe more than the Targaryens wanted.

[Rhaena Stark]

Maybe the letter said something like "come alone to DS and you can see what's left of your wife and kill her in your presence" or something like that. Or they returned the body but it was secretly buried.

Or Aegon had to kill Rhaenys to end her suffering.

[Bennis of the Brown Shield]

There has to be a reason why the Faceless Men aren't just the go to answer anytime anybody is losing a war. We're actually given that answer in Game of Thrones when they are talking about killing Daenerys. They would want a lot from Dorne. Maybe more than the Targaryens wanted.

Certainly. A theme that we see in the examples of people hiring Faceless Men throughout the series is that they have to pay by giving up what is dearest to them. But considering how destructive and extremely bloody the war in question had become, Nymor might have considered it worth it anyway.

[Ser Lepus]

I lean toward the Rhaenys explanation. If Aegon caved to the threat of the Faceless Men then Dorne (and anyone else who found out) would always have his balls in a vice.

I also think it was Rhaenys. I don't believe anything else woułd provoke such strong reaction. But probably we'll never know for sure.

My vote is also for an offer to mercy-kill Rhaenys.

I don't buy that Aegon wouldn't try to rescue his sister-wife if she was held prisioner or avenge her if they had kept her in a dungeon and tortured her for weeks/months.

Telling Aegon "we have your sister-wife in a dungeon and we are going to torture her until you stop your invasion, but if you stop now, we will mercy-kill her" seems more likely to provoke Aegon come back and genocide all the Dornish people, maybe not right at that moment, but later, when he was reasonably sure she had been killed.

I think the Dornish know something about Aegon or the Targayren or dragons, some secret Nymeria brought from Essos that Aegon doesn't want to be known, or maybe something related to the prophecy about The Prince Who Was Promised. Maybe Dawn is Azor Ahai's sword, and it's needed to fulfill the prophecy, and the Martells threatened to throw it to the sea or something.

Or it could be that Garin's Curse is true, and the Yellow Toad threatened to unleash a plague of Greyscale on Westeros.

[Maid So Fair]

I'm thinking that the letter could have actually been WRITTEN by Rheanys - just beacuse we're told it was written by the Prince doesn't mean it was. The fact that Aegon burns it afterwards without letting anybody else see the contents might be significant there. Maybe they looked after her after she fell and peace was her last wish?

My other question is about the nighttime soujourn to Dragonstone. There was absolutely no reason for Aegon to go there and the explanation of him needing some time to clear his head in his favourite spot seems too simple to be true. Do we know how fast a dragon actually flies? Are there other destinations that Aegon could fly to and back in 24 hours or less? Is Dorne too far for this?

Or maybe it's all just wishful thinking because I really came to like Rheanys and I don't want her to suffer.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

My other question is about the nighttime soujourn to Dragonstone. There was absolutely no reason for Aegon to go there and the explanation of him needing some time to clear his head in his favourite spot seems too simple to be true. Do we know how fast a dragon actually flies? Are there other destinations that Aegon could fly to and back in 24 hours or less? Is Dorne too far for this?

Yes. that's the key here.

I think the letter asked Aegon to go to DS or some other place. Maybe, as I said, they were expecting them close, on a ship, with something. I doubt it's Rhaenys, but a part of Rhaenys so he would know they aren't bluffing. "Look, here is your wife's hand. Agree on peace or we will keep chopping parts of her and she won't like it". Aegon would recognise his wife's hand (or whatever) and realise the only way to end her suffering is peace. Once he agreed, he returned to KL to officially announce peace, in front of his court.

[Valyrian Fyrewyrm]

We can only really speculate about why Aegon went to Dragonstone, my own theory is that he went to consult a glass candle stored there to see for himself if what was written in the letter was true, or possibly if Rhaenys was indeed alive to communicate with her via a dream.

I have the feeling though that we'll probably never know what was in the letter, unless it is preserved as a family secret within House Martell.

[Bennis of the Brown Shield]

I don't buy that Aegon wouldn't try to rescue his sister-wife if she was held prisioner or avenge her if they had kept her in a dungeon and tortured her for weeks/months.

Telling Aegon "we have your sister-wife in a dungeon and we are going to torture her until you stop your invasion, but if you stop now, we will mercy-kill her" seems more likely to provoke Aegon come back and genocide all the Dornish people, maybe not right at that moment, but later, when he was reasonably sure she had been killed.

I think the Dornish know something about Aegon or the Targayren or dragons, some secret Nymeria brought from Essos that Aegon doesn't want to be known, or maybe something related to the prophecy about The Prince Who Was Promised. Maybe Dawn is Azor Ahai's sword, and it's needed to fulfill the prophecy, and the Martells threatened to throw it to the sea or something.

Or it could be that Garin's Curse is true, and the Yellow Toad threatened to unleash a plague of Greyscale on Westeros.

Yeah. If Nymor sent a letter like that then he was an even bigger idiot than Doran is, and Aegon would have been worse still for letting it work.

[stunningsteve]

We should also keep in mind that Aegon had a good relationship with Deria during his later reign and even visited her with Aenys in Sunspear. I don't believe that would have been possible if the letter contained some kind of cruel threat like ordering a FM to kill Aenys.