Is the text worth it, besides the artwork?

[Linda]

Another thing about the homophobia is one of your comments on your tumblr is something along the line of someone saying so much heterosexual sex without any homosexual sex is rooted in homophobia, and you dismissing it.

Which holds little water considering there is no characters with POV's that engage in homosexual sex, and an absence of homosexual sex isn't homophobic. Its also not a setting where homosexual sex is to common so the absence is most certainly not jarring.

It wasn't out of character for Loras... thats just how show Loras is. Mourning sex is very common, and Loras is only human. In the books he could have done the same, but we never get to see if this is so.

Isn't that the point of fanfiction? People can do what that want with it. Jon/Robb/Theon slash is very popular, but it doesn't chnage the actual characters sexualities in any way.

Besides that I find no indication of you being homophobic. There may be more though.

My comment regarding the lack of homosexual sex is pretty recent and the complaints go back years. :)

It may not have been out of character for show Loras, but my issue is that they changed the character. As I said, I am a book purist. I hate unnecessary changes and changing Loras's character was unnecessary.

As for fanfiction, well, my overall opinion is that its pretty lame in general and insulting and inappropriate (and most likely illegal) if the author disallows it, regardless of how you write the characters. And changing fundamental aspects of them just for kicks is...juvenile. I know people keep wanting to draw parallels between fanfiction and something like a retelling of, say, the Iliad and there's only the most tenuous point of comparison.

But now I am getting off-topic!

[Ramsay's Penguins]

But its not book Loras? Its show Loras. Someone needed to tell of the secret betrothal, and it did not hurt to have Loras do it. The show is only an adaptation.

Fanficition only becomes illegal if someone tries to sell it as the authors own work. A disclaimer is needed for fanfiction saying that it is not the (real) authors work and that the fanfic writer does not claim ownership of the characters.

And is MUSH not fanfiction?

[Lord Varys]

Linda,

I know - at least from your videos I heard you talk about the show. And since we are talking about this now somehow: Nearly everything is spot on, and I really have a problem at times how the hell so many people don't seem to be book purists in, well, every possible regard. It's just the natural way of things in regard to the adaptation of a book series you love.

Not sure how much you hear this on line, but your view on the show and the books is certainly not uncommon.

Ramsay's Penguin,

not sure what you are aiming at here. The show should better not invent or change stuff just to add diversity if the source material does not reflect that diversity. Additional scenes and stuff are fine, if they reflect the characters correctly, but in the Loras thing this was really not the case.

Making a difference between the show and books is like comparing a the original with a bad or twisted copy. An adaptation has to make certain conceits (budget, actors, sets, and acting abilities - on that pretty much everyone agrees) but most of the main issues book purists have with the show is that you can't really say that any character in the show still resembles the original in regards to his motivation and background. Those are all deliberate changes, and them trying to force 'the show characters' in the same situations the book characters were in, makes the whole thing even more of travesty as it had been if they just stuck to changing the story. Nothing kills anything better than people who behave erratically. As far as I know, not everybody on the show is supposed to be an avatar of Aerys II.

[Ramsay's Penguins]

The show most certainly can change things to make it more diverse. But do you mean diverse in the sense of say, minority groups, or diverse as in different from the source material.

I suppose it doesn't reflect on book Loras, but its not book Loras. It is an adaptation.

Loras is different from the books, and some changes I must admit, I don't enjoy so much, but is it that big a deal that Loras tells Olyvar?

I'm no huge fan of D&D, but making a change to the show from the books does not make it a bad or twisted copy. It just makes it different to the source material, which every adaptation is bound to be.

[l2 0 5 5]

The writing is fabulous. So much more insight on characters and events that had only been very briefly touched upon before the release of this book.

I had to force myself to put it down last night so I could get some sleep. Haven't done that since I read ASoIaF.

[Duke O' Nooobs]

Yeah, I'm not sure what those trolls on Amazon are complaining about. They must just be butt hurt if they thought it was a continuation of the series. It plainly is a "history" book. The writing/narrative to me while I read last night was really good.

[Lord Varys]

There is clear that most/none of them read the thing, anyway, since it does actually contain a lot of new stuff.

[Urraxbane]

I think it's a dick move to try and dismiss negative reviews as internet trolling. I was reading the amazon reviews just now and some of them were fairly long and detailed, without any trace of trollling and also verified purchases.

I don't agree with 1-star scores, but I wouldn't give it 4 either. Still, they bring up perfectly valid criticism which shouldn't be bashed/ignored like this.

[Linda]

But its not book Loras? Its show Loras. Someone needed to tell of the secret betrothal, and it did not hurt to have Loras do it. The show is only an adaptation.

Fanficition only becomes illegal if someone tries to sell it as the authors own work. A disclaimer is needed for fanfiction saying that it is not the (real) authors work and that the fanfic writer does not claim ownership of the characters.

And is MUSH not fanfiction?

I have an issue with the fact that show Loras is different from book Loras. I find that to be a crappy way to adapt something.

As for fanfiction, you are wrong. Derivative works require permission from the copyright holder whether or not they are for profit.

The MUSH is 1) approved by GRRM and 2) not fiction (fictional, yes, but fiction as in a written story, no). Its a fan work, but not fan fiction. GRRM approves of some kinds of fan works, like fan art.

[Lord Varys]

Not to mention that the slash story department of fan fiction - which seems to be what a good portion of fan fiction actually is - is a weird way to pay tribute to something.

But authorization or no, since 'the Lannisters are broke' line from last season, the HBO is nothing but fan fiction for me. Everyone has a breaking point, and you know it when you are there.

On the other hand, it was like that since 'Qarth' is season 2. Just not yet as obviously stupid.

[Ramsay's Penguins]

Of course show Loras is different from book Loras, he is not book Loras!?

How can something be fictional if it is not fiction lmao. The MUSH isn't canon, so its a fan fiction.

The mush is a fan work that is fictional... so a fan-fiction?

As for fanfiction, you are wrong. Derivative works require permission from the copyright holder whether or not they are for profit.

Certainly not in my country.

[Ran]

I think it's a dick move to try and dismiss negative reviews as internet trolling. I was reading the amazon reviews just now and some of them were fairly long and detailed, without any trace of trollling and also verified purchases.

I don't agree with 1-star scores, but I wouldn't give it 4 either. Still, they bring up perfectly valid criticism which shouldn't be bashed/ignored like this.

I agree. Some are reasonable reviews from people who just didn't like it. That's fine. Can't please everyone.

Some of them, however, are trolls. No other way about it. You can look around and see them talking about preparing their reviews and high-fiving each other about their takedowns, their discussing strategy to try and make sure their trolling reviews aren't dropped, and so on.

[Lady Flandrensis]

The bashing on Amazon is pretty heavy traffic. I gave a short positive review and was trounced with trolling.

[Ran]

It's the same few people, more or less, jumping on positive reviews. Never fear. They're a very small group, in the end. Ignore the trolling and enjoy what you enjoy. :)

[Lord Varys]

You really can see which is what when one of the main critic points is that the book does not contain a lot of new information. That's evidently not the case.

[Ingelheim]

I have an issue with the fact that show Loras is different from book Loras. I find that to be a crappy way to adapt something.

As for fanfiction, you are wrong. Derivative works require permission from the copyright holder whether or not they are for profit.

The MUSH is 1) approved by GRRM and 2) not fiction (fictional, yes, but fiction as in a written story, no). Its a fan work, but not fan fiction. GRRM approves of some kinds of fan works, like fan art.

Linda, you have to keep in mind the copyright laws are not the same around the world. Maybe in his country he's allowed to do that.

[Stannis's Lawyer]

It should bear noting that a number of the "reviews" are from a dedicated group of trolls from a certain website known for spending most of their time hating GRRM and, by association, us. I'm told they were planning their "reviews" days or even weeks in advance. You'll find the same lot among some of the reviews on Goodreads, parroting quite similar points.

Just found that site. And...what the fuck? Really, WTF?

[Wmarshal]

Especially if you have just heard someone say that someone else told them that they believe it because they heard it from another person, because of course you base your beliefs on such matters on an internet game of telephone.

I admit, I am still scratching my head about the homophobe claim. I can see where the misogyny and racism claims come from (clearly, if you present a different opinion on Robert's and Cersei's marriage, you have to be a misogynist, not just someone with a different interpretation of the text and if you want to be a hardcore book purist about castings you are obviously a racist, not just a book purist) but that one is just baffling. It just showed up tacked on to the rest of the accusations at one point, but I've never seen it justified with anything I've said or even supposedly said.

I'd love to know, though!

I don't the racist bit, I agree with you and casting, there are black characters, how about instad of pushing them a side for their sex scenes, D&D actually give them their due and cast them instead of changing other characters.

P.S. We all have different opinions when it comes to crazy old Cersei.

[Wmarshal]

Thoughts on the novel: Thought it was fantastic, for those that say they put their own style or whatever ignores how this was done the exact same as Rogues and TPATQ. Saying this is fanfiction ignores how they used his notes and he had final say.

Only issue is i wished i had more.

[The Human Abstract]

It's interesting to read about this, as I found the reviews very ... strange. Despite the mountains of text in the new book, the negative comments were there instantly, reiterated many of the same talking points intended to slam the writing, and all of the positive comments were downvoted for being "unhelpful".

I knew nothing about this alleged internet feud but it all looked very suspicious anyway.

Especially since I now hold the book and it is amazing. As far as the writing being really bad or whatever... please. It's not even a complaint that someone would really have for a coffee table history book. It's absurd.