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Django

(TWoIaF Spoilers) Bloodraven

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So we now learn a few interesting pieces to the Bloodraven story. Most notably to me is that is sent to the wall by Aegon V (Egg) for offering safe passage to Aenys Blackfyre to meet the great council, and then beheading him. Egg names is murder in his first act as king.



I guess I had always assumed it was Maekar who sent him to the wall, but this makes more sense because we did know he was part of the great council.



We also get a better idea of the timeline for Bloodraven on the wall. He arrived on the wall in 233, became LC in 239 and disappeared in 252.



Lots of great Bloodraven story in the Aerys I section as well.


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I've always been the guy's greatest fan. I can only congratulate myself on my own great taste, he was even more amazing than I thought.



Ned Stark would have despised him, though.



It's pretty interesting that his mother seemed to be the only one of Aegon's nine mistresses (save for the Essosi one) who lasted a good number of years. I am also interested what became of his sisters. They seem to disappear from the text and while he's a Great Bastard, they aren't listed as such?



Maybe they died early, as illogical as that might sound?


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So we now learn a few interesting pieces to the Bloodraven story. Most notably to me is that is sent to the wall by Aegon V (Egg) for offering safe passage to Aenys Blackfyre to meet the great council, and then beheading him.

That kind of makes me lose a lot of respect for Bloodraven.

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Missy was very popular with the commons as well as with Naerys, Daeron, and the Dragonknight. That's why Bloodraven had always good relations to court. He loved Daeron II as a brother - off you go 'Bloodraven loved Daemon' theory. He would never have killed Aenys the way he did if he had ever liked Daemon I.


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That kind of makes me lose a lot of respect for Bloodraven.

It's completely in character for him from what we know of him, though. (I'm going by Dunk & Egg and the main series, I still ddon't have TWOIAF.) I always got the impression that he was the kind of guy who didn't care for the notions of honor or for his reputation, and whose attitude was basically: "I'm not winning any popularity contests, people already hate me for what I am, what I look like and what I can do, so I'll just do all the dirty work to keep good, smart men like my beloved brother and my nephew on the throne and defend them from these idiots and their attempts to start another civil war."

That's what makes him an interesting and grey character. I think he is working "for the greater good" (even more so) now, but he is pretty ruthless. Though how ruthless, I'm not sure. There aren't that many characters in the series with that ruthless mentality who are motivated by what they see as a greater good and not just their birthright or family pride/status or revenge or glory or other personal reasons etc. Melisandre is another one, but BR probably knows much better what's going on than she does. Varys claims he's like that, but it seems very questionable at this point.

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It's completely in character for him from what we know of him, though. (I'm going by Dunk & Egg and the main series, I still ddon't have TWOIAF.) I always got the impression that he was the kind of guy who didn't care for the notions of honor or for his reputation, and whose attitude was basically: "I'm not winning any popularity contests, people already hate me for what I am, what I look like and what I can do, so I'll just do all the dirty work to keep good, smart men like my beloved brother and my nephew on the throne and defend them from these idiots and their attempts to start another civil war."

I understand, however his actions are dangerously close to Frey levels.

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That depends. Aenys should have known that stating a claim was effectively treason in the eyes of House Targaryen. But it is still pretty nasty.


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I understand, however his actions are dangerously close to Frey levels.

I agree that it was dirty tactics, but not technically a breach in guest right, IMO. The gold cloaks seized him immediately upon entering the city, no hospitality was offered :)

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I agree that it was dirty tactics, but not technically a breach in guest right, IMO. The gold cloaks seized him immediately upon entering the city, no hospitality was offered :)

If he was offered safe passage it seems difficult say that hospitality wasn't offered. However, maybe when I get the book and read the text he will look more sympathetic.

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It's completely in character for him from what we know of him, though. (I'm going by Dunk & Egg and the main series, I still ddon't have TWOIAF.) I always got the impression that he was the kind of guy who didn't care for the notions of honor or for his reputation, and whose attitude was basically: "I'm not winning any popularity contests, people already hate me for what I am, what I look like and what I can do, so I'll just do all the dirty work to keep good, smart men like my beloved brother and my nephew on the throne and defend them from these idiots and their attempts to start another civil war."

Absolutely right. Egg complains that Bloodraven counseled beheading all blackfyre supporters--something along of the lines that you're planting the seeds of future rebellion if you don't, while the honorable Baelor Breakspear counseled clemency. Bloodraven's loyalty is not questionable, but his honor is.

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I agree that it was dirty tactics, but not technically a breach in guest right, IMO. The gold cloaks seized him immediately upon entering the city, no hospitality was offered :)

It's not breaking the quest right certainly, but he was promised safe passage. So it's kingslayer level oathbreaking here nonetheless.

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Well, Bloodraven didn't try to explain just how noble he was to do such a thing. He knew it was dishounorable. He might have even known that there would be consequences and he certainly didn't try to enrich himself in any sense. He just felt it needed to be done for the greater good indeed, not only because, say, Daemon the First started the thing that left him with an eye less.



Nothing like the Freys at all.


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It's not breaking the quest right certainly, but he was promised safe passage. So it's kingslayer level oathbreaking here nonetheless.

I'm going to argue that its below oath breaking, king-slaying and kin-slaying, but certainly dishonorable. Bloodraven is already accused of kinslaying, or is a kinslayer for a certainty. The charge is murder, and under the circumstances, thats what it is.

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Well, Bloodraven didn't try to explain just how noble he was to do such a thing. He knew it was dishounorable. He might have even known that there would be consequences and he certainly didn't try to enrich himself in any sense. He just felt it needed to be done for the greater good indeed, not only because, say, Daemon the First started the thing that left him with an eye less.

Nothing like the Freys at all.

Yeah wtf

He's been cleaning up the messes of lesser men for so long and letting them keep their 'honor'.

I'm certain he knew the consequences and what they would be, and I think this may have even been a kind of way out for him. Looking after the political realm is no longer his duty when on the wall

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Yeah wtf

He's been cleaning up the messes of lesser men for so long and letting them keep their 'honor'.

I'm certain he knew the consequences and what they would be, and I think this may have even been a kind of way out for him. Looking after the political realm is no longer his duty when on the wall

Quite likely.

This book finally gave an answer to an old pet peeve of mine: what was this peculiar enmity between Bloodraven and Maekar where Maekar cites Bloodraven's motto as something worth following and Bloodraven intends to take Maekar's son as hostage just to abandon the idea moments later after having imparted the realization just how easy it would be for any enemy of Maekar's to do so?

Looks like it was more like rumours and Maekar being Maekar, meaning - grumpy, quick to flare up, and create the impression that he hated people when it was Bloodraven being chosen over him that he had most problems with.

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Quite likely.

This book finally gave an answer to an old pet peeve of mine: what was this peculiar enmity between Bloodraven and Maekar where Maekar cites Bloodraven's motto as something worth following and Bloodraven intends to take Maekar's son as hostage just to abandon the idea moments later after having imparted the realization just how easy it would be for any enemy of Maekar's to do so?

Looks like it was more like rumours and Maekar being Maekar, meaning - grumpy, quick to flare up, and create the impression that he hated people when it was Bloodraven being chosen over him that he had most problems with.

Good point. Really interesting that Maekar keeps Bloodraven on as Hand.

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Good point. Really interesting that Maekar keeps Bloodraven on as Hand.

Well the guy was rather good at the job.

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Well the guy was rather good at the job.

But Maekar was supposedly good at holding grudges. Well, that might not be so. All we have is the biased report of masters who wrote more than half a century after his death, the rumours among the smallfolk, and Dunk's opinion. The guy did have some pretty good reasons not to be Maekar number one fan. Ha, I doubt he even made the top ten.

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It seems that the guys overcame their differences during the Third Blackfyre Rebellion. Both Maekar and Bloodraven seem to be crucial there (as well as Aerion, Egg - possibly Dunk as well - and Aerys I himself). And Aerys I named Maekar his heir after Aelor's death, just as Maekar could rightfully expect. No lasting grudges there.



An interesting notion is also that Aerys I may have actually chosen Bloodraven as Hand because they were both into sorcery. That has been suspected before, but never been stated outright. And this really suggests that they had a sort of arrangement - Aerys was not some puppet, and neither was Bloodraven the evil, power hungry uncle. 'Rule in my name, and let me do my scholarly stuff. In the end we'll live forever, get the dragons back, whatever.'


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