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Django

(TWoIaF Spoilers) Bloodraven

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I think Maekar must have reconciled with Bloodraven after he was crowned. Afterall, why hold on to a grudge over who got to be Hand, when you are now the King.

Also I think Bloodraven basically realized he might be punished for killing Aenys but he did it anyway. Aegon had no choice but to sentence Bloodraven to death,a nd force him to take the black. Had he not done it he would have undermined the whole legal system. Doesn't mean Bloodraven didn't do the right thing. Sometimes you have to break the law for a greater cause, but you must still take your punishment. The right thing is then breaking the law, and accepting judgement. Bloodraven knew this and accepted it. A truly loyal man.

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Given the fact that Maekar didn't want to be king and thought he was punished by becoming one, I'd say it was hardly likely to make him a better and more benign man.



Handship, on the other hand, looks like something he truly wanted. But it looks like his grudge wasn't deep enough to be everlasting.


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We all have made way too much out of this grudge thing. Egg tells us in TMK that Maekar loves his siblings. Maekar clearly felt he was overshadowed by all his brothers, even the mad one, and that got to him the same it got to Stannis.



But to assume that he would brood over that slight for decade was always a little bit far-fetched/unrealistic. Not to mention that Maekar's quarrel always would have been more with Aerys, not so much with Bloodraven himself. Maekar clearly thought Aerys should have turned to him for the Hand, since he considered himself to be the best man for that job (and he most likely also wanted an opportunity to shine).



With the years Maekar would have realized that Aerys had made the right decision naming their uncle to the office, and then they all reconciled. Possibly even before the Third Rebellion since Maekar became Prince of Dragonstone in 217 AC when Aelor died, two years before that rebellion broke out. If Aerys/Bloodraven and Maekar had still been at odds with each other at that point, Aerys I could have named Aelora and subsequently Daenora his heir.


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I thought about that too. Egg's Grandmother is a Martell, his mother is a Dayne and his wife is Black Betha Blackwood. His uncle Baelor also has black hair, but none of Daeron II's other children do.

Also interesting he marries a Blackwood and sends Bloodraven to the wall for that matter.

Had no idea his mother was a Dayne that's very interesting i do not have the book yet, gotta admit i was very surprised he married a Blackwood.

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Interestingly he is referenced as Hand at the time of the great council, after Maekar's reign. Unless he implausibly declared himself hand, ousting whoever Maekar gave the office to and ruling the realm in the few weeks before Aegon was "elected", or there was another great council to chose the hand (ridiculous), then that means he was hand under Maekar, this is huge.



As a few people have already pointed out, it is possible they learned to get on during the Third rebellion (I wouldn't call it a reconciliation since it seems they never got on well) and hopefully he actually did reconcile with Aerys, who probably picked the best hand available to him: the man who had been fairly successful for the last 12 years and was of proven loyalty.



As for the execution of Aenys, whilst I can't say I approve, it's kind of like Batman: he is not a hero, he is whatever we need him to be. He believed Aenys had to die to end the Blackfyre threat, he knew his already considerably tarnished name would be ruined beyond repair, and that the man who would soon be king would likely punish him for it, yet he did it anyway.


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does it say her other kids were Aegons bastards ?

Yes. Actually, Bloodraven was the youngest.

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But isn't Mel supposed to be rather old? Or is that show-only?

She is much old than she appears; 20s or 30s, and the show has suggested she is several hundred years old, but she is more likely just a fairly old person, with perhaps a bit of magic sustaining her. Shiera might be the right age, and her daughter could be too.

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She is much old than she appears; 20s or 30s, and the show has suggested she is several hundred years old, but she is more likely just a fairly old person, with perhaps a bit of magic sustaining her. Shiera might be the right age, and her daughter could be too.

Her name was Melony before she was sold, wasn't it? Hmmmmm

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It's completely in character for him from what we know of him, though. (I'm going by Dunk & Egg and the main series, I still ddon't have TWOIAF.) I always got the impression that he was the kind of guy who didn't care for the notions of honor or for his reputation, and whose attitude was basically: "I'm not winning any popularity contests, people already hate me for what I am, what I look like and what I can do, so I'll just do all the dirty work to keep good, smart men like my beloved brother and my nephew on the throne and defend them from these idiots and their attempts to start another civil war."

That's what makes him an interesting and grey character. I think he is working "for the greater good" (even more so) now, but he is pretty ruthless. Though how ruthless, I'm not sure. There aren't that many characters in the series with that ruthless mentality who are motivated by what they see as a greater good and not just their birthright or family pride/status or revenge or glory or other personal reasons etc. Melisandre is another one, but BR probably knows much better what's going on than she does. Varys claims he's like that, but it seems very questionable at this point.

This! I like the ruthless realpolitik of BR and that his actions aren't romanticised. He did what he did and he never apologised for it.

I also like Egg acting decisively but then showing both mercy and wisdom in sparing and sending Bloodraven to the wall where he could continue to serve the realm.

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I donĀ“t own AWOIAF and as form of protest against Martin I refuse to buy it. However, it sounds intriguing, especially this bit. So it seems Bloodraven kinda commited political suicide. Now the theories that he has grudge against humanity and wants to exterminate it are less plausible.


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(...)

As for the execution of Aenys, whilst I can't say I approve, it's kind of like Batman: he is not a hero, he is whatever we need him to be. (...)

Sorry to cut your post. But this THIS! SO MUCH THIS!

Bloodraven is Westeros Batman! Awesome!

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So it seems Bloodraven kinda commited political suicide. Now the theories that he has grudge against humanity and wants to exterminate it are less plausible.

Those were BS (to me) to begin with.

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Bloodraven doesn't seem to have an scruples whatsoever. I would be very wary if I was Bran. Bloodraven certainly seems the kind of guy to purposely sacrifice 10 million to save 1 billion.


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Yeah, BR is the most ruthless of all characters, the type to sacrifice a boy to save the realm (rip Jojen). Bran with Davos is the opposite, pretty much the most benevolent of characters. It's not an accidental mis-match, either Bran is going to have to come to accept Bloodraven's brutal means to save the realm of men as the only way (stop playing the boy), or reject Bloodraven's method and find his own way.


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I've always been the guy's greatest fan.

<-- Puh-lease. I am his greatest fan. I even had a friend of mine make me a cake with his sigil on top for my birthday.

.... Holy crap, I just saw myself say that. There is something profoundly wrong with me. :D

Good point. Really interesting that Maekar keeps Bloodraven on as Hand.

That was the first thing that actually shocked me in the book.

...and his wife is Black Betha Blackwood.

Wasn't that the name of Davos's ship? Or am I imagining things?

As to Bloodraven's execution of Aenys Blackfyre, IMHO it is a testimony as to how unpopular a candidate for kingship Egg was among the nobility. I am pretty sure that BR broke his safe-conduct pledge and executed Aenys, because he saw him as a genuine threat to Egg being chosen.

I was actually surprised by that - mostly due to the fact that it runs contrary to the reasoning Bloodraven used to explain to Egg why he kept Daemon II alive. After all, Aenys wasn't the last Blackfyre - so executing him would only mean that someone else will take his place (which is what happened).

Also, Bittersteel, and Brackens in general, continue to be scumbags. I assume that Bittersteel's ship to the Wall was given no military escort, because normally a pledge to join NW, even when given under duress, is considered to be irrevocable. Still, one would have thought that Bloodraven had a suspicious enough mind to make sure.

Clemency is good and fine, but Bittersteel wasn't just a mere rebel - he was effectively their leader. It's very strange that Bloodraven just let him live.

Speaking of which, I am very interested to see what happened in the second duel between the two.

I do wonder what happened to BR's sisters, though.

I wonder what happened to Egg's sisters. Did I miss something or did they just drop out of the story?

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I wonder what happened to Egg's sisters. Did I miss something or did they just drop out of the story?

My guess is that their spouses and children weren't mentioned in the World book because they weren't Targaryens. Or because they were too important and Robert and the Lannisters would not appreciate a reminder that there were Targaryen descendants through a line that might be senior to Robert's (if the succession in 17th century England was something to go by. After the end of the male line, the throne went not to the descendants of Henriette Anne, a daughter of Charles I but those of her aunt Elizabeth, her father's sister). Either way, there was an explanation for Aelinor being relegated from Aerys' sister to his cousin (Jeor Mormont being a warrior and not a maester) but I really doubt something like that could be pulled out for Aemon who said that his sisters had children. Unless some sort of dementia came out, of course.

And I am totally stealing your idea of a Bloodraven Birthday cake. I have a friend who works at the proper place and she'll be happy to do it for me. Thanks mate!

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And I am totally stealing your idea of a Bloodraven Birthday cake. I have a friend who works at the proper place and she'll be happy to do it for me. Thanks mate!

You're welcome. :)

Do send me a picture of the cake if you get the chance. :D

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