Historic foreshadowing / history repeating itself

[Lord Varys]

Cersei is not a whore. She does not sell herself. She buys men's loyalty with sex - and is quite good at that. That's exactly the opposite what a whore does.

[ARYa_Nym]

Thankfully I finished it which is good because I have other things I need to read.

Ok another was Tytos' wife Jeyne died giving birth to their son Gerion and it was a major blow. Tywin's wife Johanna would die and that would deal another blow.

Orys Baratheon actually in some ways makes me think of Robert in that they both became bitter and obsessed with vengeance-Dorne/Wyl and Targaryens/Rhaegar. Plus, one of the reasons for their rises to power was the battle prowess. But that's it.

Lyonel Baratheon was pissed over a betrothal being broken. Then we have Baratheons getting pissed again only this time it was not mended.

One of the kings Nymeria sent to the Wall: Vorian Dayne-Sword of the Evening, renowned as the greatest knight in all of Dorne. Change that for most dangerous and both he and Darkstar have names opposed to the Sword of Morning.

Qoren Martell didn't want to take sides in the Dance and said he'd sooner sleep with scorpions. Oberyn would later say he'd rather have scorpions in his bed than Cersei Lannister.

I noticed that in the Iron Bank part that there had been rumors that the Iron Bank would send assassins after lords and princes who didn't pay. I wonder if they'll do that or confirm it in this series.

As for the Aegon III and the sibling that went missing I had thought that Viserys II was like Arya in that he disguised himself as someone of lower birth and tried to blend in but the expansion on his personality they aren't similar. So I'd have to say the Targ that disguises themselves as lowborn that she is similar to is only Daena.

Before I thought Aegon III could be similar to Jon with the liking black and the melancholy but for him as well the expansion on the character made me think no and I agree that he's more like Stannis.

[Annara Snow]

Cersei is not a whore. She does not sell herself. She buys men's loyalty with sex - and is quite good at that. That's exactly the opposite what a whore does.

That's not the opposite of what a whore does, that's the amateur version of what a whore does. A whore barters sex for money or goods, Cersei barters sex for services rendered. Whores also often approach their clients, particularly those who do not work in brothels.

[bemused]

My book might not be here 'til monday... :crying:

But, ARYa_Nym .. you're making me smile..For a number of reasons, I've long suspected Mance is Qorgoyle's bastard ... but then it's also been just too tempting to think he has hidden king's blood when Jon thinks Mance is no more royal than he is.. ;) so I've been curious to see if the book would contain even a hint that the Qorgoyles could have kingly blood..

Woohoo! - not shot down yet !..and a few delicious crumbs of hope.

[In A Coat of Gold]

The Cersei/Aerys parallel is striking.

[Elessar]

Come on folks! Stannis as the (new) Conquerors Hand, just like Orys was the first Conquerors!

I believe!

[JonCon's Red Beard]

That's not the opposite of what a whore does, that's the amateur version of what a whore does. A whore barters sex for money or goods, Cersei barters sex for services rendered. Whores also often approach their clients, particularly those who do not work in brothels.

I shouldn't have laughed at Cersei, the amateur whore :lol:

Come one folks! Stannis as the (new) Conquerors Hand, just like Orys was the first Conquerors!

I believe!

I believe it possible too.

[Elessar]

I would love it, and it's very possible. Anyway it was my first thought when I read about Orys and Aegon.

[AryaNymeriaVisenya]

Gendry is getting Storm's End

'The Tide Turned again when Morden II named his base born half brother Ronard his castellan [he stole his brother's queen and crown]..His Usurper ruled for nigh unto thirty years as Ronard the Bastard'

Then there is Orys, the rumoured base born bastard and 'none dared suggest that he was unworthy of these honours'.

GRRM...paving that way for not only a bastard but a low born bastard?

[ARYa_Nym]

Surprisingly, Aerys was giving me Lysa as opposed to anyone else. The circumstances and response with Viserys was very Lysa/SR to me.

I thought Gendry dying could be history repeating itself.

Hugh Hammer, or Hard Hugh, was a blacksmith's bastard on Dragonstone during the time of the Dance of the Dragons.^[1] He was one of the dragonseeds.

Hugh was tall and huge, with hands strong enough to twist steel bars. He wielded a warhammer.

^One of the betrayers made me think of Gendry. Although personality wise they aren't alike but still in the second dance a bastard who meets Hugh's description could die too.

Vic also killed someone that reminded me of Gendry.

"The last man to face him must have been a smith; he had shoulders like a bull, and one much more muscular than the other....The only blow he landed completed the ruin of Victarion's shield, but the cut the captain dealt in answer split his head in two."

As for Orys and Ronard I imagine that they Orys especially (since he was so close to Aegon) would have been privileged and not like an uneducated bastard despite being of low birth. I didn't get any hints that he lacked education at least not in his manner of speech.

ETA:

My book might not be here 'til monday... :crying:

But, ARYa_Nym .. you're making me smile..For a number of reasons, I've long suspected Mance is Qorgoyle's bastard ... but then it's also been just too tempting to think he has hidden king's blood when Jon thinks Mance is no more royal than he is.. ;) so I've been curious to see if the book would contain even a hint that the Qorgoyles could have kingly blood..

Woohoo! - not shot down yet !..and a few delicious crumbs of hope.

I don't know how I did but glad to help.

[AryaNymeriaVisenya]

You get all the scary bits Nym! I definitely think that Gendry's getting a warhammer to bash someone in, there is also this Dany quote 'They said Robert Baratheon was strong as a bull and fearless in battle, a man who loved nothing better than war'. I think we are definitely seeing foreshadowing of Gendry going the full Robert. You are saying he's going to get on the wrong side of Victarion?

I wouldn't consider Ronard I such a foreshadower if he were anywhere else but the Stormlands but baseborn bastards repeated in the Stormlands raises suspiscion.

[HexMachina]

The Cersei/Aerys parallel is striking.

Both of them even wanted to buikd a new city away from the stink of King's Landing :p

[Elessar]

A white city across the river would have been so cool... A shame Aerys was the Kingdom's stoner king:

"I have a great idea!" - - - - - hours later... "fuck that idea, I've got another one!"

[Red Tiger]

A white city across the river would have been so cool... A shame Aerys was the Kingdom's stoner king:

"I have a great idea!" - - - - - hours later... "fuck that, idea, I've got another one!"

LOL, he really was. It was like Tywin was the parent who had to keep the stupid kid out of trouble.

[bemused]

ARYa_Nym....

Your "help" came in the form of .. now Quoren and Oberyn both mentioning sleeping / bedding down with scorpions.

One of the clues I'd been picking up is House Qorgyle = 3 black scorpions on red. Mance shows Jon the red silk patches on his cloak : " Here , here and here." ..that's 3. ( among other clues )

I had been wondering if the Qorgyles had been kings at some point , but this would fit , too.

[HexMachina]

A white city across the river would have been so cool... A shame Aerys was the Kingdom's stoner king:

"I have a great idea!" - - - - - hours later... "fuck that idea, I've got another one!"

That is me after a drink too :lol:

"Hey, we should definitely meet up tomorrow and go see London Zoo or something!"

"What? I said that, really? But I hate you all..." :p

On another note, although it isnt really a theory I buy in to, I guess Maegor's Trial by Seven may offer some weight to the idea that Cersei will go through something similar. Especially as it was organised by the Faith Militant. But that is me playing Devils Advocate, since I dont buy the theory myself.

And on the topic of the High Septon, it seems doubtful that the Faith Militant can be disbanded whilst the current High Sparrow lives, and even his death is no guarantee. It is hard to see how they would.be disbanded this time around actually.

[The Red Widow of Coldmoat]

That is me after a drink too :lol:

"Hey, we should definitely meet up tomorrow and go see London Zoo or something!"

"What? I said that, really? But I hate you all..." :P

On another note, although it isnt really a theory I buy in to, I guess Maegor's Trial by Seven may offer some weight to the idea that Cersei will go through something similar. Especially as it was organised by the Faith Militant. But that is me playing Devils Advocate, since I dont buy the theory myself.

And on the topic of the High Septon, it seems doubtful that the Faith Militant can be disbanded whilst the current High Sparrow lives, and even his death is no guarantee. It is hard to see how they would.be disbanded this time around actually.

The Faith Militant will be disbanded when everyone converts to R'hllorism after Melisandre saves the entire world, duh

[The Scabbard Of the Morning]

You can draw a parallel between the Daeron and Robb. The Young Dragon and the Young Wolf, both incredibly charismatic military prodigies who were master on the battlefield, both cut down in their youth by treachery.

[chrisdaw]

All the action in the Vale happens at the Eyrie. They'll be back up there regardless of how stubbornly Mya insists it can't be done.

Jonos Arryn imprisons Ronnel and ends penned up in the Eyrie by Lord Royce.

It will be even worse in winter, she knew. In winter this will be a cold white prison.

I suggest Sansa and Robert will be sent or flee to the Eyrie from/by/with one of the Royces, and that's when the dragon comes.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

A white city across the river would have been so cool... A shame Aerys was the Kingdom's stoner king:

"I have a great idea!" - - - - - hours later... "fuck that idea, I've got another one!"

:lol:

His ideas weren't that bad.

Maybe... MAAAAAAAAAAAYBEEEEE... It was Tywin the one who lacked the imagination to make them so... Yeah, he gave Westeros peace and bread... pffffffff.... what's THAT compared with another bigger Wall???!